At 4zzz, we acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we broadcast. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging of the Turbul and Jagera people. We acknowledge that their sovereignty over this land was never ceded and we stand.

In solidarity with them. You're listening to transm on 4zzz, amplifying the trans and gender non conforming voices of Brisbane and beyond.

Hey, hey, hey. You're listening to four Triple Z. This is Transmission. We amplify the voices of the transgender diverse, non binary community here in Magingen and beyond. I'm your host today. My name is Sev. My pronouns are he and they and I'm joined in studio.

Hello, my name is Hazel and my pronouns are she, her.

Lovely to be in studio with you, Hazel.

Lovely to be in the studio with you, Sev.

And dear listeners, it is our pleasure, privilege and solemn duty as the hosts of a show dedicated to trans news, trans lives, trans joy, trans music to come to you in one of the most tumultuous and intense weeks in recent history for Australian transgender diverse, non binary people.

Been a bit heavy.

It has been incredibly heavy, of course, also internationally, it has also been very heavy, of course, but here on the ground, we're really feeling it in Queensland. For those of you who, like me, may be feeling a little bit overwhelmed with all the information, or for those of you who haven't been presented with much of the the information or had it reported to you yet, we'd love to give you a little bit of an overview of what's happening here in Queensland regarding trans rights right now. Would you mind giving us your very excellent rundown?

It would be my pleasure. So to put it shortly, there's been a pause on health care for new patients to the Queensland Children's Gender Service. At the end of January, the Queensland Health Minister, Tim Nicholls, announced an immediate pause on access to hormone treatment and medical intervention for new patients. It came following claims that patients were not being provided proper guidance before receiving their hormone therapy. A quote from him says that this has resulted in 17 children receiving hormone therapy that may not align with accepted Australian treatment guidelines. This decision was slammed by the head of the Australian Medical association's Queensland branch, Dr. Nick Yim, who stated, it is vital that these patients have access to safe health services and are free from judgement and discrimination. Alongside this and other responses from the medical community, protests have also commenced, including a snap rally of the parents of trans children and the trans community outside the office of the health minister. The QCGS had just recently in July of 2024 received an independent review that found not only that it was practising consistent with national and international guidelines, but that it needed more funding and staffing. The former Health Minister Shannon Fenton also responding. I welcome the findings of this report which shows, based on the best available evidence, that our Queensland Children's gender service is considered one of the best in the country on a national scale. The Albanese government has ordered a review of the trans and gender diverse children and adolescents health guidelines. The Federal Health Minister, Mark Butler, stating these issues should be nationally consistent and in my view, should be driven by the preeminent authority.

So that's a lot to sit with and unpack.

Absolutely.

Immediately. I want to hold a moment to send our unified love and solidarity to all transgender diverse young people out there immediately affected by this decision. It is never easy accessing the care, support, affirmation and the rights that you're so deeply entitled to. It's never easy and the harder it's made. I understand how lonely a feeling that can feel, how scary a feeling that can feel.

Absolutely.

So the very first thing I want to do is speak to our community. Speak to young people who are afraid right now, speak to their parents, their friends, their loved ones who are afraid for them right now, and speak to all those people who, like I was for a very long time in the closet, self doubting and unsure and feeling the weight of the social pressure and the world and expectations of how I was supposed to live and perform gender. Every act of bravery I saw, every act of visibility I saw from other trans people helped bolster me, helped strengthen me, and helped pave the way for me to be able to finally, at a much later stage in my life, come to terms with owning who I am. But I remember the counter part of that being every snide comment, every joke, every hate crime, every awful thing I would hear from somebody I considered a friend or a peer or an educator or a politician I was supposed to be able to quote, unquote, trust. They bobbed my soul really hard. And right now, so many of those voices and so much public rhetoric is so loud and so barbed that I really feel for and fear for the people for whom this is affecting the way they're able to love and see themselves, not just their ability to live joyfully and successfully and access care. And so right at the top, I just want to say, you are not alone. Trans people have always existed. We will always exist. And every single one who has come before you is fighting to lift you up. We will Be here the whole time. We're not going anywhere. And as you said earlier to me today, yep, it feels so monumental and overwhelming. It feels like we have hit this wall. But the truth is we're gonna keep going and we have to brace ourselves and nurture ourselves and care for ourselves and our community, because it's going to be a very, very long road and there are going to be some obstacles. It is gonna get nasty out there.

Yep.

But we've got this and we've got to take care of ourselves. We've got to pace ourselves. Self care, community care. Care for our peers. Cheque in on your trans friends, please. Allies, listeners. We're not all right, but we do need your help.

We do, absolutely.

Now, I'm really delighted with the content that we're going to be bringing you today. One of the greatest things about four Triple Z, one of the greatest things about Transmission as a show is that it's one of the only places where you can guarantee that you're going to hear trans voices. You're going to hear music by trans people. You're going to be able to celebrate in our lives, our experiences and our joy. Very, very rarely do we hand over our microphone or speak to CIS people in this space because we hold this space for trans voices. The most difficult thing about this targeted attack on children and children's services is that we don't get to hear their voices. We don't get to hear those children's voices, and it would be unfair of us to put expectation on them to guide us through how to give them the best access to their rights. So. So for a very rare and special episode of Transmission, the team here have been working tirelessly throughout the week conducting interviews with parents of trans children. So you can hear their stories. You can hear the stories of trans children, what this will mean to them, the impact that gender affirming care has, the positive impact that gender affirming care has on the lives of young people, what it means to the parents who want only the best for their kids.

It's so important. With all of the headlines and all of the discussion you see around this, we kind of keep talking about numbers, we kind of keep talking about what these trans children are as far as a discussion goes. But it's more important to hear the actual personal story of it, the personal experience of it, and to hear it from people who aren't trans themselves, but care so deeply about them as well.

It is enlightening for anyone, I think, when there are social and political justice issues that don't directly affect us. The one thing I have seen time and time again is empathy is the first step. An ideology, a belief. It can all be very amorphous and theoretical until it impacts somebody that you know, somebody that you love, or their story touches you in some way. It's understandable. I'm not going to say that I don't understand why the sections of the populace are deeply concerned about the safety of children. All right, I'm not going to pretend like I don't understand how the rhetoric has gotten to the point where people believe that there is a risk to children. I can see how we got there. But when the overwhelming evidence of the medical community, nationally and internationally, of psychologists, of medical doctors, of gender specialists everywhere, every study shows us that affirming gender, that gender affirming care is the best solution.

It's life preserving.

It is life preserving life. Improving treatment and our freedom, our autonomy, our individual right to health care is between us and our doctors. It should never ever be a blanket statement by a government based on ideology that comes from any side of the political debate. Healthcare is a right. And I'm really excited to share some of these incredibly powerful interviews with you. So please do stick around for this incredibly important episode of Transmission here on 4zzz.

Amplifying the voices of the trans and gender non conforming community of Meanjin, Brisbane and beyond.

Transmission on 4 Triple Z brings you.

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You are listening to Transmission on for Triple Z. My name is Sev. My pronouns are he and they and I'm joined in studio.

Hi, I'm Hazel and my pronouns are she and her. But oh my God, we have a new person in the studio now.

Yes, I'm bet my pronouns are she they. Sorry I'm late. I had a last minute technical glitch.

So glad that you are with us and glad to be spending this with both of you. We have been talking at the top of the show about the recent happenings here in Queensland. The pause and review on access to gender affirming care for young people awaiting treatment sitting on the waiting list right now. The most important voices you can be hearing right now are those directly impacted. Unfortunately, those directly impacted are young people are children. So the incredible team at Transmission has been recording interviews all week with parents of trans kids to talk about their experiences. The impact on their children and what the future looks like now. Bet you conducted some of these interviews yourself. How did you find the process?

Oh, it was great. I really loved meeting the parents. I'm in a parent group for trans kids online because I'm a disability support worker and at some point I met one of the parents and they let me advertise there, which I do very rarely because I don't want to step on any toes. But anyway, so when all this kicked off, I was kind of able to keep in touch with the parents pretty closely and gather all the ones who were interested in speaking. And we had them in on Saturday and just went through them one after the other. And yeah, when I got home, I just, I was very moved. Like, I love talking to these parents. I love seeing how much obvious care that they have, how much obvious understanding they have of their kids. I mean, obviously it's not something that was very common when I was a kid. So to see this is honestly so inspiring. And I think that the fact that the trans adult community and the community of parents of trans kids has been able to come together this week has actually been one good thing that's come out of all this. One fantastic thing.

I would say that's incredible. Bet, thank you so much for all the work you've done behind the scenes. And at the top, a huge thank you to all the parents who spoke with us and who are sharing this with all of you. And I can't imagine a more important time to stand up and have your voice heard for these parents and people in this situation. If you're out there and you also have a story you'd like to share, if you have a trans young person in your life, if you are a trans young person and you would like to ever text us or message us on social media and let us know your experiences that we can share anonymously for you. Please do reach out. This isn't a one and done. We are in this for the long haul and with you and we would love for you to reach out. You can find us Trans Radio. That's trans with a Z for four, Triple Z. Please do reach out anytime. We're going to listen right now to one of these incredible interviews. This is an interview conducted this week with parents of trans kids.

I understand you have a 14 year old child, a trans girl. Can you tell me what's her situation now with accessing care? I guess. What's her history been with accessing care?

Yes. So our daughter came out when she was 11. We immediately got in touch with the gender clinic only to be told there was, you know, a huge wait. It was told initially it was three or six months and then it blew out and then it was a year and then it was 14 months. And in the meantime her body kept growing into something that, you know, she didn't identify with and upset her greatly because puberty is such a time sensitive sort of area. When we finally got into the Brisbane Gender Clinic here, they were fantastic, very thorough, very consistent. Lots of people see you, you have lots of conversations, you know, you talk to nurses and psychologists and endocrinologists etc. And she was finally given access to puberty blockers to pause her puberty until she was old enough to excess hormones. The moment she's in between puberty blockers and hormones and we are very worried that she will not go on to the next treatment plan. From blockers to hormones.

Do you have any way to access private care? Have you looked into that?

We have looked into that and honestly we are in a probably more privileged situation than a lot of other people that if we were able to access private care then we should be able to afford it. But the waiting lists on private services, as far as I understand, is also very high and there is less and less people willing to practise in this area and prescribe hormones because it's so political. And besides from that, why should there be a public and a private, you know why Being forced private, I guess.

I wanted to ask you what other challenges your child faced during that time because we know that life can be hard for young trans people.

Yeah. As a young girl coming out, she has visited a couple of schools. She came out in the first few Weeks of Year 7 in high school and we were very supportive, immediately helped her with her name change, etc. And the school wasn't very supportive. Children weren't very supportive. When she got access to puberty blockers, for example, it might mean they're diuretic, so you have to go to the toilet more often and instead of going to the safe space for toilets in the year seven area, she'd have to cross and go all across the campus to the senior area. And then sometimes that door was closed. So that's one example of how it wasn't supportive there. So we decided to go to another local school where the staff was extremely supportive and she always had someone to talk to. But it didn't stop children in that school to make awful remarks and on a daily basis wear her down her self esteem. And yeah, year Nine, cyber bullying. Sorry, Online cyberbullying. They took photos of her and shared it over Instagram and, well, now she's schools, distance education from home and it's give huge mental health issues that we're still dealing with today.

I was wondering, did you have a connection to the LGBTQIA community before your daughter came out?

I guess we're both very well. We met at the theatre where there is, you know, there was a number of LGBTQ people, but I have to say we've not met, knowingly met anybody that represents the T, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

So, yes, we'd known people that were, you know, gay or whatever or bisexual, but never somebody that was trans. So it was not something that was, you know, part of our daily life.

I asked you that for two reasons. One, because some people might think, you know, that you influenced your child somehow, but also because I was wondering how you reacted when your child came out.

Um, gosh.

Well, I guess.

Yeah, you go.

We sort of looked at her as. She's always been a bit. What's the word? Like queer. Sort of quirky, I think we used to.

Quirky.

Quirky.

She's always been a bit quirky. And yes, she came out as trans at 11, but there was kind of signs that, you know, we actually thought at one stage she might be gay, she might be something else. So we always had this inkling that this is the way she was going to be and we were always very supportive of her doing that.

I'm just going to say that, you know, she's always experimented with her gender expression from a very young age. And so she's always been, you know, dressed like Tinkerbell at a very early age and she'd have fairy wings. And we encourage that as much as I could. I'm an early childhood teacher from background, and, you know, there's nothing wrong with expressing your gender in any way you like. So to me. And so did our other child, her younger brother, he also dressed up in fairy wings and outfits. So we never really thought anything about it, just as a way to express yourself and embody different characters.

I think there was like one or two times where she wanted to wear, like, very flowery dresses to school for dress up day that we sort of seen.

Oh, she loved dress up days.

Yeah.

Maybe pull that back. Because we were more worried about the backlash on her. You know, we wanted her to express herself, so we try and compromise with her to something that she could express herself without getting the ridicule.

But I Never thought, oh, yes, she's trans, or maybe she is trans. That never, ever crossed my mind. And when she was in about grade five, she said, mom, I need to tell you something. I think I have a dream or I have a wish. I want to be a girl. And at the time, she had a lot of friends. They were all girls. And the girls at that age just didn't want to hang around with boys. Right. Which is what she presented at the time. And so I thought, this is what's going on. She's being, you know, the girls are pushing away. She's lonely, and that's why she wants to be a girl. That was my assumption. And I said, well, I can't help you be girl, but I can. What else do you want? She goes, well, I want to be a dancer. Well, let's up your dance classes and. And that's what we can do for you. And then we never heard anything anymore. And I thought, ah, you see, it's because she's getting along with her friends, her girlfriends again. And this is why she had that desire. But when she came out in grade seven, we knew that was for real. I don't know what changed. I was prepared. I was like, yep, this is who you are. We're gonna help you. Yeah.

I think it was just a gradual change. She became more confident in what she was doing. And when it sort of came out, it wasn't. I don't think it was much of a surprise.

It was like, no, it wasn't a surprise. That time makes sense. No.

What are your fears for the future? And do you have any idea how you respond if those fears eventuate?

I'm furious at the moment. I'm so angry. I'm so upset. I fear for her mental health. I fear that politics are what is driving all of this. I don't fear. I know that our daughter is being used as a political football. And I fear that we are such a small minority that have such a disproportionate amount of attention in politics, and I don't understand why they care about our daughter. Her hormones, leave us alone. We will do anything. We will stand up and protest and do anything for our child and the community. And it's not just her, you know, there's so many people out there that are not going to be able to access puberty blockers because they're still on the waiting list. I'm getting very emotional. We'll do anything we can.

Going forward. We can do a supporter. We'll look at all the Options that we can get to get what she needs and make sure she gets the right care, the right treatment. It's frustrating because of all the big things that are out there at the moment. How does this even rate a mention in politics? Why are they even caring about something when, you know, we've got so many social, economic problems that they keep saying they're going to fix, but they want to use this as a distraction. And as we said, for such a minority of people that they know if they lost the vote system, they would think, well, it's not going to influence, and it's just really, really, really heartbreaking that they would do something like that.

Are you optimistic at all about the future? Do you feel like things could get better?

I always say there's swings and roundabouts that you've got to go through. It's just for this one, it's very time based for her, which makes it really hard.

I'm not optimistic. Sorry. I'm a bit more on the pessimistic side because I can see what's happening overseas. I can see that that is being echoed in Australian politics. I fear this is only destroyed start and we might be the first minorities to be attacked. It might not stop with transgender children. It will be transgender adults, it will be other LGBTQ people and so on and so on. I am not optimistic. And I feel like we need to stand up now at the start of this. Do not get complacent and think, oh, this is just a small minority. It doesn't affect me. It's going to continue and we need to do something now.

She gets far more, you know, emotional than I do with this.

But what about you? Do you have any optimism, though, Terry?

I do have optimism more. I mean, I can see a real bad time. That's the problem. But we've seen what's happened in the past. You know, we saw with the gay marriage how years of pushing down the community finally came together and said no. And we pushed back and we've moved forward. And I just look back over time. It's like things do move forward and all I see at the moment is people trying to push backwards. And eventually you can't stop the world progressing. It will progress forward, but there's that time you've got to get through. And I just wish they would just learn that there's no point looking that way.

Absolutely incredible testimony there from parents of a local trans girl. We are listening to interviews today that have been pre recorded by the transmission team over the last seven days to Amplify the voices of those people most affected by the recent pause statewide to access to new patients for gender affirming care for young people. It is a very difficult and painful issue. And we are so grateful to everybody who came forward to talk to us about their families experiences, their children's experiences. We have so many of these incredible interviews and testimonies. And we do encourage you, if you're out there and you would like to add yours to the voice, add your voice to the choir, like, please get.

In touch, actually, especially if there are practitioners, if there are physicians out there who want to speak. I understand you don't want to draw attention to yourselves. This is a highly contentious issue and I'm sure you're all very busy, but please, I've been begging for physicians to speak for a very long time.

Of course.

Who else? I mean, advocates as well, I guess. We've got the legal team. The LGBTQI legal team, I think is about to start a lawsuit around this. So if anyone from that team wants to come in, I've got a name that I'll be contacting shortly. I haven't had time yet.

We want to share as much information, as many great sources, as many stories as possible. It is definitely something that we will be continuing to report on as time goes on. And we're so grateful for all of you out there, everyone listening, all of the solidarity and love we are feeling from you. The text line is just lighting up at the moment. A huge thank you to those messaging. Just the one right in front of me. I want to say a huge thank you to Tracy, a subscriber to 4 Triple Z, who has sent in a text saying, sending love and solidarity to the four Triple Z trans community. I will keep fighting. Trans rights are human rights. Thank you.

Thank you, Tracy.

Thank you, Tracy. Thank you for your support, your words. And you know we can't use this platform to its best without the support of our subscribers like you help provide us the space to do this and share these stories. If you're out there and you don't know what to do to support and you just want somewhere to start. Subscribe to transmission so you can keep an eye on our information, news, the stories that we share. And consider becoming a subscriber to 4 Triple Z. You can cheque out our packages anytime. 4 z.org au forward/support. We can't do what we do without you. Thank you, Peter Sterling, the only man.

In the world who's given birth to a child.

Someone might say you're a bit of.

A queer.

Then they'd be Brian.

Today, in one of the most tumultuous weeks in trans social political history, locally here in Queensland, we are talking about the impact of the snap decision to put a pause on access to gender affirming care for new patients under the age of 18. We've been listening to interviews from parents of trans folks talking about the impact on their families and lives and we have so many incredible contributors who have stepped forward to share their stories. We're going to jump straight in to the next one. I want to thank you for your ongoing support on the text line. Thank you for listening to 4zzz.

Hi, I understand that you have a 19 year old trans son.

I do, yes.

Can you tell me, without revealing any personal details, a little bit about his journey? How old was he when he came out to you?

So he was just turned 13 when he came out to us and that was in 2018. Back then we basically got put in touch with the gender centre.

The Queensland Children's Gender Centre. Yes, yes.

And we started going in to see them. That sort of happened for approximately maybe six months of doctor's appointments and various tests and things. After that he received his first lot of blockers and he was so happy and so much better. It was so wonderful to see the difference in him once he started that he really came into his own. So we were all over the moon that he was finally able to feel himself, be himself. Then we spent many more years at the gender centre until he turned 18 and he aged out of care. But during that time we were unfortunately affected by the COVID lockdowns. So that caused quite a bit of delay with his treatment.

So just to get the timeline straight, how long was he on the waiting list to access care at the qcgs? Do you know?

I think he was on the wait for about four months.

Oh wow. He was fairly lucky.

Yes, it was at the time. I know it's a lot different now. It's been added onto that now.

How long did he have to progress through the different physicians at the clinic before he was prescribed puberty blockers?

He had to see psychologists and counsellors and things there. So it was at least six months before he got the blockers.

Okay, yeah. What was your experience and his experience of the QCGS like? Was it a good place?

Yeah, it was wonderful. He had a really good experience there. I mean, he was a very timid child but he is finally able to be himself thanks to them. So we are so thankful for everything they've done for Us and for our family. It's been life changing for him to be on these medications.

When Covid happened, how long would he have been on blockers at that point?

So about three years. But you said that between his blockers starting and he got T when he turned 16. So there was three years between that. But when Covid started, he had only been on blockers probably six months at that time, Right?

Yeah.

And what happened then? I think you said that the hospital turned only to emergency.

Emergency, yeah. And they locked all the hospitals down.

So does that mean the QCGs just wasn't seeing anyone?

That's correct.

Could he get his prescription filled or not?

We found it difficult to get his prescription filled. We had to ring around a lot of places to. To try and get it done. Also, we had to delay getting some of his other medications as well that they had prescribed for mental health stuff.

So when you say ring around, you had to find a GP that was willing to prescribe, is that right? Yes.

We had to get private done, yes.

And was it hard to find gps that were willing to prescribe at the time?

It was, yes.

Even though.

Yes. And what happened then during that time, because of the delays in the medication, the delays in him getting further along with his T. Sorry, testosterone.

Yeah.

For him to be able to be prescribed the testosterone, he had to go through quite a lengthy. Sorry, I can't think of the word.

Gatekeeping is a good word, but maybe.

That'S not the one. It's a very lengthy progression from the blockers to T and it takes a lot out of the kids. They've got to be back and forth all the time to the hospital and they've got to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to be prescribed the testosterone in the first place. Now, that was delayed because of that. His was delayed maybe six to eight months before he. So he would have been 14 and a half at 15. He should have been able to get his testosterone, but because of that delay, it actually took an extra year all up for him to get to his testosterone treatment.

And I guess all that time he was being homeschooled or something as well, he was isolated from his friends.

I imagine his mental health went from being wonderful on the blockers to being told, no, there's a delay with your testosterone treatment, now there's more delay, more delay. You'd be ringing up and finding out that, no, it's going to be put off another month or another couple of months before he gets to see the psychiatrist now and all that Sort of thing. Because of that, he ended up basically falling into this terrible depression and he actually tried to suicide and ended up in hospital. At that particular hospital where the gender centre was. Yeah, because of that. And I just worry that with the government putting this blanket ban on these medications, that other families are going to go through this same thing. It was like the worst experience of our life. You know, all of us, we were horrified. It was so scary. And it's just an awful thing to watch your child be so hurt. And, I mean, let's face it, they cop a lot of bullying from peers, they cop a lot of bullying from other parents, other members of society. The last thing they need is for a government now to step in. I mean, ours was delayed because of a massive medical problem that no one had ever dealt with before. So that lengthy delay was unfortunate and it nearly cost us our son. But what they're doing now with the government blanket banning, it makes me worried sick. I'm really, really, terribly worried about what we're going to see and honestly, the government are going to be the ones with blood on their hands if anything happens.

I'm curious about your son's experience at school, especially as he came out. So I'm hearing that he was probably a shy kid and then at some point he had to come out at school, I presume, to his friends and peers. How did that go and how did the school staff respond as well?

The staff, some were really good, but others we didn't have a good experience with.

Well, what was the policy of the school overall? I mean, back then.

Then they didn't know how to deal with anything like that. It was like, yeah, this is so new. We don't know what we're doing. Basically was the attitude. He ended up in a kind of a segregated area. I know, for trans kids or whatever. No, it was just for kids with learning difficulties and things like that. Yes.

Hang on. But did he have a learning difficulty? I guess it's difficult to learn when you're stressed because all the kids are born.

That's right. Exactly. That's exactly right. I think they actually were doing it because they thought it was the right thing for him to, you know. But he did not progress well in that environment, as you can imagine. He did well with his friends at school. Like I said, his immediate close friends were really good, but the rest, they did bully him quite a bit. That went on into high school for him because he was just.

Are you hopeful for the future? And I mean, not just for your son, but for all trans kids.

I was until this happened. Now I'm feeling really disheartened for our trans community, I hope that they will immediately overturn this stupid decision and get back on track with some good treatment for our kids because that's what they need. They need help to get comfortable and be who they are.

Right. Right on.

It was really, really heavy and really important to hear.

Yeah. And I just want to point out that's not. Nothing about that story is unusual. Right. Like we've got the kid getting bullied at school. When he comes out, they segregate him in the school, then he struggles to get on hormones, he ends up in the hospital from self harm or suicide in this case. None of that's unusual. Right. I just read it. Well, I didn't read the study this morning, but I saw it quoted that that was worldwide. It went to Shanghai, it went to somewhere in India, there was somewhere in the United States and another country. And they found experiences of bullying like that for every trans kid that they interviewed in all those countries. So this is a worldwide phenomenon.

I can't say how much it makes my. Like my, my chest, my heart feels so full to hear the testimony of those parents.

Yeah.

Feeling so the way that it is almost cathartic to hear our CIS allies say they recognise the danger, they are afraid. They can see how wrong this is, that they're going to fight like hell.

Yeah.

Like you were saying earlier, bet like to see trans kids supported and upheld by their family, defended by their parents, loved and wanted. It's a childhood I can't have dreamed or imagined for myself.

Yeah, totally. The other day a parent told me about their very young trans kid, about 5 years old, who has never had to have an experience of not being out. Like that kid was accepted right from the first moment that they mentioned it to their parents, the first moment they came out. And I mean, how who care? You just can't imagine, can you?

This fills me with a kind of hope amidst the intensity of the. The current situation and the despair that I understand so many people must be feeling, so many young people and families must be feeling. But to know that we have already, as a society, as a community, progressed to the point where there are kids being supported right from their first expressions of gender, non conformity and transness.

It's beautiful.

It is beautiful and we are growing, we are making progress slowly but surely. How many genders are there?

I don't know.

I just got here.

Huge, huge thank you to workers Power in solidarity.

They've lent us Their power.

They have lent us their power in one of my favourite examples of four triple Z solidarity. Because, as they said, trans people are workers too. We stand together. We love you, workers power. Thank you for giving us a trans hour of power because we are going to stick around transmission giving you all of these incredible interviews with parents of trans kids directly affected by the changes, the current pause to access to gender affirming care for new patients, and testimonies about how essential that care has been for trans young people in our community. Right here. My name's Sev. My pronouns are he and they. And I am joined today in studio.

Hi. My name is Hazel. My pronouns are she and her.

I bet she, they, please.

And we have more of these very powerful testimonies and interviews. Please do stick around for our trans hour of extra power right here. These interviews have all been conducted over the last seven days by members of the transmission team in order to best highlight the human stories of those most affected by these current changes. And a reminder in these tumultuous times that we are not alone, we are in this together. And your trans community, your trans elders, and hopefully all our allies in the community, we stand in solidarity with trans young people and we reaffirm that all science, all evidence, all the best medical organisations in the world agreement.

Now, hang on, I want to say something here. I feel like black and white statements like all science are not going to help us because the other side is doing a serious disinformation campaign. And to be fair, science can come out lots of different ways. Like not everything they say is based on complete falsity. It's like an interpretation of the science, right? And there are studies that do show some risks to gender affirming medical care. And we know there are some risks to gender affirming medical care. And we know that every now and then someone does cease gender affirming medical care and cease to identify as of course, as their gender that they were identifying as.

But there isn't a type of medicine in the world that doesn't have the same applications. Sure, we wouldn't bear need replacements.

It just makes me worried when we make black and white statements, you're worried.

That people will take the misinformation as truth because of the label it comes with. You're saying.

What I feel like is the more black and white statements we make, the more we open ourselves up to this information because there will inevitably be a chink in our armour. Because as you say, not any medical care comes with no risks. And I doubt there's any medical care that doesn't have some science to suggest that maybe there are better ways to do it. Do you know what I mean?

Oh, I absolutely do. And I thank you for calling that up because I do think that it is important that we, we are trustworthy in the information that we give. And we relying on blanket statements that have potential for falsehood in them is very much the purview of the.

And this is not at all a personal attack on you. I find that the trans community in general has a tendency to repeat articles of faith like the 1% so called detransition rate, which everyone. That's. That's not a thing. And no one remembers the source of that. I think I saw it once. Maybe 3% is more like it. That's what it looks like to me and that's what it looks like to a lot of people. So my point being, there's a huge disinformation campaign out there. That's why this is happening. And I don't personally think it's a coincidence that it's happening on the date of Trump's inauguration. I think that Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine and Anti trans Org and their friends have been agitating the liberal national government. They saw them get in. The President of Segham lives in Northern Rivers, New South Wales. He definitely was watching. And they have orchestrated this and it's followed a pattern directly from the uk. Everything about it. I don't have time to go into it now.

I think what's worth saying here definitely is amidst all of this, just sort of maelstrom of, you know, negativity, misinformation and information, the people who are getting affected most by this are the youngest members of our community. And the valuable thing about this episode is we're going to be able to hear so many more of their voices and their parents voices.

Exactly.

And I'm just, yeah, I'm super excited to hear more of these testimonies that we've got lined up.

Absolutely. And you know what, speaking of that, why don't we cut to our next interview right now? Once again, these are all interviews conducted in the last week with parents and, and carers of trans gender diverse children here locally. Thank you for listening to four Triple J.

So I understand that you're the person that started that protest the other day. Yes, the one outside the Health Minister Tim Nichols office. And There were about 150 people there, I think.

Yeah.

What was it that triggered you to start that? Obviously there's been a lot going on but what was your personal feeling that made you want to do so?

I have two children that are trans. And when we heard the announcement, my wife and I felt that we had to do something. So I suggested, well, let's go to Tim's office. And the original idea was we'd just sit there for a few hours to kind of annoy them. So then I put it on Facebook and said, hey, everyone, I'm gonna be here at 9:30. Actually, it would be great if other people come along and sit there for a while too.

Were you shocked when all those people turned up?

I was very shocked. I almost cried and I was so, so grateful that everyone gave up their time. It was in the morning on a.

Weekday, so that must have inspired you a lot. Did it give you some hope?

Look, yes and no. It gave me a lot of hope for the future of protesting.

And, yeah, we've got a lot of protests ahead of us.

Yes, yes. And like, a lot of people on the day said, if this is what we can do in less than 12 hours, think of what we can do if we have more time to organise. That is where I have hope. I have less hope that it will make the impacts we want it to have. But we're supposedly a democracy and part of a democracy is protest. So you have to get out there, you have to show up or nothing will change.

So you said you have two trans kids now. I think you have a trans daughter. And you said that your other child was Agender, as. Is that right?

Yes.

Okay. And that's the younger one?

Yes.

So you're probably not sure whether that child's going to need to access hormones in the future or is that an issue?

So my younger one actually started puberty a little bit early, and luckily at the time, the older one had already started with the gender clinic. So we knew the process and so did the younger one. And that was great, because when the younger one's name popped up, the younger one knew what was coming and what they had to sort of do. But it was through that process, going through it themselves, that they decided actually they don't need puberty blockers and have mostly been checked on and cared for by the psychiatrist and the social workers to just keep in touch and make sure that decision is still there.

And your oldest has accessed puberty blockers through the Queensland Children's Gender Service, is that correct? So how long did that process take? I mean, firstly, how long was your eldest on the waiting list?

It was about a year.

And then once. Once they got to see the physicians. How long did it take to be prescribed blockers?

Well, that one was actually quite quick because once we got in, it was discovered that she was at the very beginning of puberty. So to get on puberty blockers you have to be in this really sweet spot of having just started puberty, but not enough that like hair is growing, for example. So there's a tiny, tiny window of time where you can realistically start puberty blockers. So anyway, my, my eldest went on puberty blockers, so has been able to be on them now since they were 11 and they're now 15. And then they have to say for repeated number of years that they are very sure about their gender.

I'm curious if they say they're non binary. They still can get hormones.

Yes, yes.

But they're not saying that, they're saying they're trans femme at the moment.

Oh, yes, yes.

And they've said that all along. Right.

Well, definitely we've been through a journey of them figuring it out for themselves, but definitely for the last probably three years, they've been very sure they want female hormones, she wants female hormones. Even if for a long time she still classed herself as non binary. So then she had to jump through all these hoops and we knew that she had the final hoop to jump through on Friday. So it was two days after the announcement went in on Friday and they said, we can't do it because at the moment the gender clinic at the children's hospital have said they do not have enough information. And we came out of that appointment just all three of us, myself and my wife and my daughter just crying because we were so, so close. And our 15 year old has been waiting so long to get on HRT and saying to all the people at the gender service, please, I want hrt. Like as soon as I'm allowed to get it, I want it. And then just as we're at the final hurdle, it was taken away and it's devastating.

Totally. And I guess they couldn't even really give you any idea of what was going to be happening at the next appointment because from what I hear, it's chaos in there.

Yeah, that's exactly right. One of the things they're wanting to do is put together a list of ways you can get it privately. You know, keeping in mind that a lot of people with trans kids, we just don't have a lot of money.

And anyway, the wait lists are going to be huge.

Well, exactly. And so some have even closed their books because, like, as soon as the announcement happened, they knew they'd be inundated and closed their books.

Some had closed their books before that announcement. Some had closed their books last year.

Right.

Did she get experience bullying when she came out?

Oh, absolutely. Because she was still at primary school when she came out. Our first bit of bullying was actually from the principal and that team. Yeah. And, yeah, we were at a state school and the principal sort of went, well, I've never had to do this. I've never gone through the protocols for a child who's transgender, so I don't know what to do. And I was like, so go to the Department of Education and ask them.

So did the principal do that?

No, no, no.

Wow.

No, no, no. And the. What did they call them, Counsellor person at the school actually brought in an article that was written by a anti trans person about children with autism who are also trans and how when they have autism, they are confused. I'm like, my child is not confused. Get that newspaper out of my face.

Yeah. And as if your daughter's confused. You've just told me that she came out in primary school.

Yeah.

And she's been waiting all this time and she's 15 and she knows. She's known all along.

Yeah.

Right, well, case closed. I think we better wind it up now. So I guess I already asked you the question about the future and hope. So I. I know you're going to keep protesting, right, Absolutely. Signing up because I can tell that that's what you do. So it's really great to meet you and thanks for coming in.

Thank you.

What a gorgeous interview.

Yeah, she's lovely.

Wonderful.

For those of you just joining us, well, thanks for listening to. For Triple Z. This is an extended episode of Transmission, amplifying the voices of our gender non conforming trans and non binary community.

In a way, this is the first ever episode of Trans Power.

This is Trans Power. Huge thanks to Workers Power for giving us their space and time.

Absolutely.

But these interviews are incredible.

Yeah. Look, it was a real honour to be involved in them. I'm going to have to go in a minute, so I just wanted to say, everyone, I know I sound like a doomer sometimes, but don't underestimate the enemy. They're very clever, they're very organised. This is not a spontaneous thing that's happening. It's not a spontaneous questioning by the National Liberal Party. They've been coached by someone. Definitely. They're not clever enough to do this. They don't know enough about the topic. Everything has followed a pattern that we've seen before overseas. That's not to say we're going to lose. I just don't want people to be overconfident. We need to address the disinformation. We need to address it directly. And we need to understand that for disinformation to work, it has to have some true facts sprinkled in there. And there are some true facts sprinkled in there. So that's my last word. I have to go get my electrolysis done, so please continue.

Of course.

Thank you so much, bet. It's been an absolute pleasure having you in studio today.

Oh, and I will never give up on this fight. I will be locked to things. I will be there with your kids, parents if you need me. This is the only thing that I'm dedicating my energy to outside work at the moment. The last week has been the busiest week of my life. There are other people like me doing everything that we can. We're keeping in touch. There's a network of people fighting for you. Okay?

And we're so thankful for your workbet for the work that we were able to do because of 4z and the subscribers to it and the work that everyone else is doing around here. Like with this. Guys, stay tuned. Listen to each other. Stay contributing. Like BET said, it's important. But also people are working here. People are trying very hard for you, but also against us in general. So stay tuned.

Guys, solidarity. We have a quick sponsorship spot I would love to share with you because we cannot do it without the support.

Our greatest joy beyond the activism, beyond being at 4zzz, is showing you sponsors.

Yeah, we love our sponsor partners and they're very cool in our community. So show them some love. And afterwards, we're gonna cut straight to the next in our series of interviews with parents and carers of trans youth.

Open Doors Youth Service is Queensland's leading lgbtqiap sister girl and brother boy youth organisation and we aim to create a safe and inclusive environment. We have drop in spaces in the valley for all queer and gender diverse young people aged 12 to 24. It happens every second and fourth Monday of the month from 12 to 2pm so come along and join us for a free barbecue, lunch, games, chill spaces, showers, as well as a community closet at Open Doors. Our motto is pride for life. We look forward to seeing you there. For Triple Z cares about our communities.

Hi. Now, I understand that you have a trans child and I was wondering if you could tell me about your child. How old he is?

Yeah. Yeah. So he's just turned 14 just a couple months ago.

How's he going with his transition? When did he come out to?

Well, he came out officially about. He was 11 going on 12, so two and a half, three years ago. He always, from a very young age related to the LGBTQ community, he always had strong feelings about it. So we always knew he wasn't going to be straight hat we always knew he was going to be somewhere on the rainbow spectrum. We just waited for him to tell us where he was going to be. And then once he came out to us, it was more of a relief than anything because now we know where he's at, what we're dealing with, and we can make sure he gets, you know, all the help that he needs and everything. So, yeah, it was, it was a good moment for us. We were really, we were glad that he'd come to that, that he was comfortable enough talking to us about it, that he knew he could talk to us about it and come out to us and that we would be there for him. It was really nice moment when he finally said, yep, this is how I feel. This is where I'm at. And we were like, great, cool, let's do this. When he came out to us, he'd pretty much already chosen his new name and everything like that and was just like, yep, this is what I want to be called now. I want to be a boy. And we're like, okay, let's go get you some boys clothes. Let's, you know, start working on it.

Do you think he was nervous about coming out to you at all?

No, no. His mother and I aren't together anymore, but we're still friends and co parents and we work together for him. His mother's got a gay brother. He knows that I had gay and trans friends. He knew that, that we were very open to it and very passionate about it already. So he had no issue at all coming out to us. It was just when he was ready and wanted to tell us when he came out that for us there wasn't any questions or doubts. There wasn't, are you sure about this or. We knew him, we knew he waited until he was absolutely sure with what he wanted. Then he told us and we're like, cool, let's do this, you know.

So did it take him? Was there a lag between that and when he came out at some school or did he just come to school straight away?

Well, what he did was it was about midway through the school year that he came out. He decided just to finish the school year, going by his female pronouns and names and everything like that. Then we just said, okay, we'll start off the next school year. We'll start you off right there. And then as a boy, we'll tell the school about everything and tell them your new name and everything.

How was the school? How were the school starting?

School has been brilliant, actually. I've been very, very, very happy with this school. They're very inclusive. They've got rainbow flags and trans flags all over the office and the school. They're very vocal about not bullying and being very accepting. I was very impressed with that. So he was born in Toowoomba and grew up there for most of primary school. But Toowoomba, it's not the most progressive sort of town for kids to grow up in anyway, and he's a very smart kid. And we weren't happy with the schools up there, so we made the decision to move back to Brisbane to get him into a better school for better education. What really impressed me was how much more open the schools are down here to that sort of thing. Like, we had an older son who went through school in Toowoomba and his school, there was no clear signs at all that they were inclusive in that way. And then, yeah, we found the school down here for him. And the moment we got into the office for the interview for high school, he saw all the flags and the signs and everything and he was like, yep, this is for me. So they've been very good. They've got counsellors at the school that are very open, and there's quite a few kids in his school that have come out, whether it be gay, lesbian, trans, whatever.

How were the other kids?

Mostly good. He's got an amazing group of friends that are very much all over the rainbow spectrum. He's only got, like, one straight friend, so he's got a couple other friends that are trans, a couple others that are. Are gay or whatever. And he's actually also said that a lot of the kids at school choose him to talk to, to come out to, because they know that he's very understanding and accepting, really love his friends to death and. And their parents, they're all very open and accepting of it, which is great. There are a few boys in the school who he talks about who unfortunately have gone down that whole sort of. Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Rabbit Hole. But overall, we haven't heard about any actual bullying or issues or anything like that. So it's been. It's been good for him in that regard.

So how has his experience been. I think he's at the, the qcgs, the Gender clinic.

He hasn't got the. He's on the waiting list for the gender clinic. I know, yeah, I double checked with his mother on it.

So he hasn't had it.

So yeah, he's gone through GP psychologists. He sees a psychiatrist and a psychologist once a month each and we've gone through talking to doctors and that sort of stuff.

Is that all private?

No, it's been mostly public actually.

But it's not through the QCGs?

No, no. So he's on the waiting list there. He's been on the waiting list for about a year and we're told that they're actually a bit backlogged at the moment. Apparently they've got hundreds of kids all waiting to go through it. So hopefully this year we'll get him in there for that and get it started.

Is he keen to get on puberty blockers?

He often jokes, you know, you hear about a lot of the anti trans people. Be like, kids are going to school one gender, coming home the next gender or whatever. He would love it if he could do that. He wants that pretty urgently but. But he understands it's a process, it takes time. I'd already done research into it, so I knew what the medical procedures would be. So when he came out, it's like we knew exactly what we needed to do and we were able to explain to him that it will take time, medical and mentally and everything, you know, like everything's gotta go through due process. Yeah, he's very understanding of that. He knows what the procedure is, but he is very keen to get onto the puberty blockers and everything as soon as he can.

So it sounds as if he's not in severe distress about it right now, but he's impatient.

So his thing is he's very confident within himself about it, but he's also very aware of social issues in general and inequality and you know, he's always studying up on transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism. Like he's very empathetic and sympathetic to other people who are suffering and that's where most of his mental anguish comes from. It's not his personal transition, it's that he really feels for all of the other children and people out there who don't have that support, who are being prejudiced against and everything. And that's more the mental struggle for him rather than his own journey.

It sounds like he's had a good experience, experience in general with the physicians.

That he's seen yeah, I've been really, really impressed with that. Like, when we first went to a GP to talk about initially, even though it was our first meeting with this particular gp, she knew nothing at all about why we were coming or anything. And she had a trans pin on her shirt. The moment we saw that, we're like, okay, cool. We've come to the right person, we've come to the right place. Overall, we've had a good experience with the medical thing. Like, he was able to get on a mental health plan to see therapists and everything as part of the procedure. That's expired now, so we're having to pay full price now for every visit and everything. But for the first year or so it was all covered under Medicare and that sort of stuff. And, and so that side of things has been positive. I. I can't speak for other people going through the. The experience, that's been very good for us.

That's great. So obviously you feel quite strongly about the situation at the moment with kids being unable to get new prescriptions for blockers. You were hoping to. To get your son blockers through the QCGs. Doesn't sound like that's going to happen. Have you got another plan?

I haven't thought that far ahead. I mean, obviously the stuff that's going on now in Queensland is fairly fresh. Like, it was only this week that the LMP announced that they were putting a pause on everything. The moment I saw that of straight, I was like, we got to get onto this. And that's when I started joining the Facebook groups, because I was in a couple of groups but wasn't very active. But the moment I heard about this, it's like, can't stand for this. We got to get in and fight this and take it on. He'd heard about it and obviously he's very concerned as well. But basically all me and his mum just said, look, you'll be okay. We're going to fight this for you. No matter what happens, you're safe. You will be able to go through this one way or another. If it gets to the point where they do change the laws here so we can't, then we'll have to look at options and look what we can do. But even, even if he's denied medical assistance until he's 18 or whatever, that won't change the process for us. We're going to keep doing everything we can. If we have to pay for everything, rather than get Medicare or whatever, we will. We've just assured him, no matter what you are who you are, you've got our support and we'll do all we can to make sure that you're safe and secure and you can be you.

That's great.

Yeah.

Do you feel hopeful about the coming months and years for trans kids?

I try to be positive and optimistic. There's just so much shit going on in the world at the moment on so many levels. I have faith long term. I do believe that people of my generation are supportive of this and I do believe that the future is in good hands. I look at my kid and his friends and everything and I'm like, they're going to be great people that make a big difference in the world. But my biggest fear is those who are currently in power are going to mess things up so bad that they won't have the chance, you know, and that's not just on gender issues. It's just on so many different things in society at the moment. But no matter what, when he's with us, he's safe and, you know, we'll make sure that everything, everything is okay. And, yeah, we'll just keep fighting. And if they change the laws now, it's going to be hard, but I do believe long term we are going in the right direction. We've just got to get the bigots and the idiots in control now out and then get the right people in, which could take a bit of time, but yeah, yeah.

Another incredible testimony.

Absolutely. It's just it. Again, it's hard to overstate just how nice it is to hear parents and just, you know, cisgender people in general who are so passionate about these trans kids, so caring for them and legitimately wanting the best from them.

You said it while we were off air. Bittersweet is a perfect word for listening to these interviews, because on one hand, I don't imagine anybody cannot be feeling the pain, the fear, the anguish of these families. To hear parents speak so, so passionately and with such fierce defensiveness of their children and their children's safety, it fills me with a sense of absolute pride and hope in the future for these young people and for our social and cultural future, too. To see kids so supported, loved, upheld, and with parents who will do anything that is needed to support them and get them the care they need.

Absolutely.

Knowing that you parents are out there fighting for your kids fills me with a kind of gratitude and joy and a recognition of how we are progressing in the short, my short lifetime, how much progress and change has come. And I can see that these stories are reaching so many of you out there. We've had some beautiful texts on the text line. Sorry we don't have time to read everything, but we're so grateful for all of your messages. Sean says, go you good things. I'm with you. Thank you. Thank you, Sean. Andrew says, beautiful show. Sad about political bigotry.

Me too, Andrew, Me too.

So sad. Um, thank you all for texting in. We won't have a chance to read them all on air, but if you have a message of solidarity you'd like to send, we'd love to hear from you. And yeah, as always, if you want to be a subscriber, cheque out4 triple z.orgauforward/support. We really can't do it without you. We appreciate all your help and solidarity. We have some more very potent, brilliant interviews with local parents to share with you, so I would like to cut to one of those right now and say, once again, thank you for being here with us. Thanks for listening to 4zzz.

Now, I understand that you have a trans child. Could you tell me a bit about them, their age, maybe where they are with accessing treatment at the moment, or where they are in their transition?

So I have a 13 year old trans daughter. Our journey started in October 2023 when she came out to me. Back then, we put our names straight on the list for the Gender Clinic and we received a letter from the hospital that said, oh, you'll be seen in three months. So we merrily waited our three months and then phoned the Gender Clinic and were told, oh, that's wrong, you should not have been told that. Yes. Which made us quite upset. And, yeah, I actually made a complaint to the government about it and that was taken up through my local state member and we were apologised to because our decision was that we weren't going to stay on the waiting list because we couldn't, it was too urgent and we had the ability to access private treatment then. So it was frustrating that we hadn't been told back in October previously of the wait time because it would have meant we could have accessed private treatment a whole four months earlier. And at that age, it's crucial. Four months of puberty can mean a lot, so that was disappointing, but it was good that we'd been able to access private treatment. So my daughter has been on puberty blockers for nine months. I think it's 10 months now. However, my husband was recently made redundant, so accessing puberty blockers privately is obviously very expensive and now there's a whole lot of Uncertainty around whether or not we will be able to continue accessing them now.

Actually, I heard recently that puberty blockers are incredibly expensive.

Yes.

Has that been your experience?

Yes. It's about $1,000 every three months.

Okay, so that sounds pretty dire. Are you worried about that?

I am, I am.

Can you tell me, while that was going on, what kind of other challenges did your daughter face?

She's faced challenges at school with some children not accepting her. We made the decision early. She had been waiting to sort of transition or come out more widely until she'd seen someone at the gender clinic. When we found out that that was a long way off. It was the week before school was supposed to go back and she just made the decision. We talked about it and she said, look, let's just do it. I wrote one email to the inclusion deputy at the high school and it was all sorted from that, which I was very surprised and pleased about.

Did you find the school staff supportive?

The school staff have been especially supportive, but there are students who give her a hard time. She doesn't want to cause any trouble, though, so is reluctant to name any of them or report any of them. It's hard. And she does things like not drink at school so she doesn't have to use the bathroom.

Given all that, given all the challenges that she faces, which obviously sounds like they got worse after she came out. Have you noticed any other changes for the better in her mental health?

Oh, yes, she's much happier. She's much happier.

That's so remarkable, isn't it? Like, she's open up to more bullying, presumably, but she's much happier.

Anyway, she has a wide group of friends for the first time ever, a wide group of supportive friends, which she never had at primary school.

Now, hang on, I've lost the timeline here. Did she come out as soon as she came to high school or was it.

Towards the end of her first year of high school?

Okay, so she made these friends when she got to high school and I guess that gave her the courage.

I believe that's how it happened. Yes. Yes. She actually came out to me the day before I was going to get her name tattooed on my arm.

Oh, her dead name.

Her dead name. She knew that this was going to happen and it prompted her to come out.

Oh, that's brilliant. Now, I understand that you are actually a practising Christian, is that right?

Yes, that's true. And my Christian faith informs my desire to fight for my child. It's my belief that you cannot read the Gospels in The New Testament without coming to conclusion that Jesus stood for the outcasts and the downtrodden. Jesus would not turn away trans people. Jesus would not hate trans people. Jesus would not deny treatment to trans people.

Amen. God is trans anyway. Non binary.

Yes.

No. It sounds like you as a parent, didn't really have any problem in accepting your child when she came out.

No, I'm delighted.

You're delighted.

I'm delighted in some ways, but terrified in other ways. She has autism and adhd, so she already has a high risk of suicide or a higher than average risk of suicide. I'm aware that being trans adds an extra level on, so that scares me.

But I guess you're delighted because she invited you into knowing her more deeply.

Yes. Yes, I'm delighted. I have a daughter. We do all kinds of girly things together. I never thought I was gonna have a daughter.

Some parents would say maybe you tried transter.

I don't know. Well, no, I don't think so. Because there were signs when she was very little. She said, when I grow up to be a girl, I want to be a ballerina.

Oh, really? How young do you think she was?

She was about three.

Yeah, that's not uncommon.

When she went to kindy, she put on the same dress every day. It was only when she got to primary school that she sort of became gendered. Sort of gender conforming.

I remember it well. Okay, well, a question about the future. I guess it's a twofold question. On the one hand, what are your fears? And on the one hand, are you hopeful at all about the future?

My fear is that we will have access to puberty blockers taken away from us, whether financially or through the government. I know in the UK they first banned the use of them publicly and then they follow that up by banning the use of them privately. So I'm scared that that will happen here. I also believe that no one should be denied access to essential treatment because they don't have the money to pay for it. Hopes for the future. I hope that she will grow up to be happy and happy in herself. I hope that the world becomes a more accepting place.

Do you think that's going to happen?

I'm not sure. So exactly 50 years ago, my parents in the UK marched for gay and lesbian rights exactly 50 years ago. And they thought that they had won the battle then, but I think things are going backwards. So I'd never been to a protest before this week, but now I've been to two and I think I'm going to take up the fight.

Now, what was your experience of those two protests? So I know, I know on Wednesday, there were a lot of adult trans people that turned up to help you out. How did that feel?

That was good. It was affirming. I met lots of people. I learned a lot. I've joined some other Facebook groups and connected with some other people.

Did you know any queer people before?

Oh, I knew plenty of queer people.

Did you know any trans people?

Yes. My husband's godson is trans. Yes. So I've known him since he was one. And he legally changed his name when he turned 18.

Right. So that makes more sense out of why you weren't too shocked when your daughter came out.

No, but I grew up knowing that. I didn't grow up knowing anyone who was trans, but I grew up knowing that gay and lesbian relationships were totally normal. My parents had close friends who are gay and who are married and have been together as long as they have been together. It's always been normal for me. It's been normal for them. They've shown such support for my daughter. It's. It's unbelievable.

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for coming in today.

You're welcome. It's been a pleasure.

The impact that this pause on access to gender affirming care is having on these families. I feel so educated and grateful for the insight allowed by the bravery and strength of these parents sharing the stories of their children's experiences. How are you feeling with all of it?

I mean, it's emotional, it's really heavy, and, you know, we threw the word around before. It's bittersweet. It's, you know, we really love to see so much love, so much support from these people, so much care, but to know that it's come in this time due to, you know, these children being targeted, due to the way in which these decisions are hurting and seriously, seriously affecting the whole community, but especially these younger members of the community.

And you can hear the love and, you know, determination in these parents voices. They can see firsthand what is right for their kid and what's wrong for their kid.

Absolutely.

They've worked with the systems, the medical teams, gender clinics to approach and access getting the best possible care, to give their kids the best possible shot at living their best childhood and growing into their best lives.

It was also really good to hear about the effects of the protesting, the coming together and the being loud and proud about who we are. And when a decision hurts us, we're willing to talk about that. And we're willing to share that with the people who make that decision.

Which is a great moment to remind everybody and let you know that the Trans Justice Project has announced a national day of action to protect trans youth. That's this Saturday. Every city around Australia, as to my understanding, have different activations, protests and events happening. There are also a number of events in the lead up if you are interested in getting involved. There is a local Protest Saturday at 10am Meeting at Speaker's Corner. They invite you to join to demand the Queensland government overturn its ban on hormone therapy for trans young people people and call on them to make gender affirming care accessible and affordable for everyone who needs it. So we really hope that as many of you as possible are prepared to come and support in solidarity. Activate with us. I will be there. Please, if you see me, come and say hi. I'll be waving a big old Transmission banner. And there is more. There are more events and more action coming. We're also gearing up for another trans power episode with our dear friends at Worker's Power. In a couple of Workers Power, we will be covering the action and the activations in protest of these dreadful policies that directly impact the lives of trans people in our community. We've got one more interview. I'm gonna squeeze it right at the end of this.

Absolutely.

I just wanted to one more time say a huge thank you from the bottom of my heart and all of us here at Transmission, to all of the parents and young people who have contacted us, who have come in and been interviewed by us, who continue to show their bravery in the face of such overwhelming opposition. We are so grateful to you. We're here for you. And yes, if there is anyone else out there who would love to share their story, who wants us to, to know their journey, their kids journey, please do get in touch. This is not a one and done. We are in this for the long haul. We are with you and we will fight together. We will get through this. Let's catch that final interview that we've collected this week.

Okay, so I understand that you have a non binary. Well, they're not really a child. I think they're 19. Is that right?

That's right, yes.

I was wondering what age did they.

Come out to you about? Age 14.

And was that a surprise to you or.

It was a surprise in that they were nervous about telling me and my husband, their dad. And so that was a bit of a surprise because when they told us. Well, first of all, back then I didn't know what non Binary was, yeah. And I just said, oh, okay. And then I went and googled what it was. I didn't know. And then when I understood what it was and talked to them a bit about it, I thought, yeah, I said, yeah, no worries. Because to me, I'd known them growing up and to me that made perfect sense.

Oh, that's beautiful. And so what happened at that point? Were they eager to access hormones ultimately, or was that something that they decided on over time or.

It was kind of over time because I think they really just understood that they weren't male or female, that they were somewhere in between, but they didn't know what that would look like for them at that point. So a few things straight away were, can you use my preferred name? And my pronouns are they, them? So we got used to doing that sort of thing, a haircut, a change of clothes. But they didn't even discuss any physical changes needed until they got further into puberty.

So at some point, I imagine you accessed therapy for them. Was that because they wanted to access gender affirming medical care or was it just as a matter of course?

Anyway, yes, they were wanting to access options and know what they could do because they were going through a lot of trauma with going through puberty. So we first of all made an appointment with the gp, who then referred us to a specialist.

Okay, and was that specialist a psychiatrist? Was it a psychologist or a psychiatrist? Okay. They went through the qcgs, the Queensland Children's Gender Service. Or was it private?

We actually had to go private by that point because Alex was a little bit older and we weren't located near Brisbane.

Okay, and how was that experience? Was there any wait to see the doctor?

There was about a month, I think, which is a long time when you're going through trauma. So we just tried to get through day by day until that point.

So at that point they were going.

Through a hard time, a really hard time. Not able to shower. The body was just a real source of upset and distress.

So they had some full blown dysphoria.

Absolutely, yes.

Okay, so they saw this private practitioner. What happened then? How long did it take for them to be prescribed? Was it puberty blockers that they went on?

No, they didn't go on puberty blockers because it was too late.

So what age were they at that point?

Yeah, about 14 and a half, 15.

So was there a wait at that point before the doctors was willing to prescribe hormones?

The option was straight away if they wanted to take hormones and to stop menstruation which is what we did straight away. So we were able to do that while going through the process.

Now, I think you mentioned progesterone, was that right? Yeah, that's that what they accessed at that point?

Yes, that's right, yeah.

So did your child ever go on testosterone?

No, they didn't want to.

Right. Okay. Now you mentioned that there was a dramatic change pre this experience and post this experience.

Yes.

And I think you also mentioned that there was a bit of distress, a bit of a wait before it could happen.

Yeah.

What was that?

Well, that was particularly because Alex's main thing was wanting top surgery or double mastectomy more so than hormone. So that was a longer process because I'd already gone through puberty and it wasn't an option till they turned at least. And we also had to go through a very thorough psychiatric assessment. So there was hours of kind of interviewing and then that also had to be signed off by a second psychiatrist. And then we were referred to top surgeon.

How did your child relate to that process? I mean, did they resent that? Kind of sounds a bit like an interrogation.

It was quite personal questions and hard questions about yourself. And they wanted me to be there for it. That was an option because they were old enough to go by themselves. So I said, I'll sit there with you.

How did you feel about it?

I thought it was really hard to have to, because I think I wouldn't even know how to answer some of those questions myself about my gender. But then as they spoke, I got to understand them a lot more and what they were going through. So it was a positive experience for both of us and we could talk about it afterwards, which I think was really helpful about who they are and what they want and what they need.

Ultimately you felt that those questions were appropriate?

Yes, yeah, I think they were, yeah.

And you said that your child's quite a success story these days.

Yeah. So after the surgery, it was like dark veil had just lifted the minute they came out and they were smiling again, back out in the world. And what I didn't realise is that they laughed and I hadn't heard them laugh for many years, like I couldn't remember since I was a little kid. So that was just instant change just being affirmed in that way. And then they'd been doing distance education, cut off from people not doing their activities. They used to enjoy just getting back out and doing all those things like going for a swim confidently and became a ducks of school. From wanting to drop out and going to university and getting A job and all those kind of things.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

So you're from out of town, so you probably weren't at that.

That's right. I couldn't get to that one.

You feel strongly about the issue? I sense.

Absolutely.

So how has this news hit you and how has it made you feel about the future? Do you feel hopeful that trans kids are going to get the treatment that they require and deserve?

I had felt hopeful before this because I saw that there were services being provided and it would have been really good for my child to access gender clinic and things like that. But when this came out, I thought that's. I don't want other kids to go through that trauma of not being able to be affirmed in your gender. So that terrifies me of what impact that will have on young people's lives.

Me too. But there's a positive note, I guess, and that's that your child's doing really well now.

Absolutely. And it absolutely turned their life around to be able to be affirmed in their gender. So that's why I'm passionate that it's just that important.

You're listening to 4 Triple Z and that was one of just a number of incredible interviews from parents of trans kids affected by the current bans and pauses on gender affirming care. This has been an incredible episode. I've been so grateful to be in the hot seat and sharing it with you. Thank you for everyone out there tuned in and supporting. The ZEDS transmission is here every week and you can find us online. Trans Radio on Instagram. Please give us a follow. We'll be sharing information, access to events, activations, protests that are upcoming. And of course, if you wish to be in touch with us, send us a message.

Absolutely. We're so thankful for you as a community and so thankful to be able to support you and be able to do something that really builds up support for each other.

Stay strong out there. We got a long one ahead of us, but we are in it together and we've got your back.

Thank you so much for listening to Transmission.

See you next Tuesday, 9 to 10aM.

On 4 triple Z.