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The Trans Mission on 4ZZZ, amplifying the trans and gender diverse community of Meanjin, Brisbane and beyond.

Good morning, you're listening to The Trans Mission on 4ZZZ. My name's Sophie and my pronouns are she/they.

My name is Ren and my pronouns are he/him.

And tell us about yourself, you're, you're an interesting character.

Uh, hmm, well, that's generous, but, uh, I, I mean, I'm just a Brisbane local person. I don't really get up to much. I'm an artist, uh, I do a bit of work at Netherworld, just over the road. And that's it at the moment.

And you've got a— you're doing a mural in Netherworld, aren't you?

Yeah, I am. It's my first ever mural. I'm very excited.

I'm excited to see what you come up with. And yeah, today we're just talking about coming out stories. Like when we realized, oh, we're trans. I guess I'll start with my little coming out story. Yeah, when I was about, I'd say, 8, 9, I was in primary school and I was, you know, doing sex ed as kids do. And yeah, they were talking about the reproductive system and I was like, wait, why don't I have that? And it was sort of, I don't know why at the time, it just confused the hell out of me. And like, I was like, why do I not have—

Why?

that thing that lines up with— And I was up until about the age of 30, I was like, what? Why do girls get to wear dresses? Dresses are so cool, you know? Like, I love high heels. I love— and I've felt myself aligning more with my sister's experience than the boys at school sort of thing. And Like I didn't really play with that. I didn't play with like, what's it called? Action Man much. I was like, oh, Barbie dolls and stuff. And I kind of, looking back on it, I kind of projected myself onto that and going, oh, I'm a Barbie doll.

Yeah, classic.

Yeah, I mean, may not look like one now, but I'm more built like a cow. But I embraced that. I embraced the cow. And yeah, all through high school and stuff, I had more female friends than male friends. I took the more feminine-leaning classes, like I took home ec and I loved it. I was awesome at that. Just little things looking back on it that you realize I wasn't always— I wasn't a dude. Like, and it's funny because the amount of times I'll be having a conversation with someone being like, oh yeah, way back in high school, I did this, this, this, and this. I was like, oh, I just realized that in my 30s. Yeah.

Hindsight's 20/20.

Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people have had that experience, like sort of, you know, because I mean, after all, gender roles are just a thing. Well, not a thing. You know, you can, you can be a butch masculine boy and like, yeah, be into sewing and knitting and—

Oh, you're talking about me.

Traditionally feminine things. Speaking of you, speaking of you, Ren, what's your coming out story?

Well, I mean, probably like a lot of people, there's like multiple ones, right? My first coming out was definitely when I was like, like 3. And I put on a hat that said bears on it, obviously. And I said, I'm a boy and my name is Jack. And everyone just had a big old laugh. And yeah, the whole time since I was an infant, I knew that I wanted to be a boy, that that's how I felt. But it was always understood that that was not a possibility.

So like—

There was a lot of, you know, being a tomboy and stuff like that. Then puberty hit and I tried to make it work. So my second coming out was when I was like 25. My friend, my lovely friend, who's still a good friend now, he put me in drag and I looked incredible, like stunning.

So cute.

Put me in this bodycon dress and a wig. And he was like brimming with joy. He was so excited. This was instant kill day. He was like, we should go out. And I was like, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I was like so confronted by like this crushing feeling of, you know, existential misery, to put it in a careful way. So I was like, ah, shit. Yeah, no, I am, aren't I? Like, that's what dysphoria is.

It's that moment of, it's that moment of, oh, goddammit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because you spend all this time trying to not be trans and knowing that like, this is what you need. And then just being like, well, I got to make it work though.

Yeah. And, and trying to stick to those traditional gender roles. And like me as a 20-something-year-old and like very much in the church, like, I'm not, yeah, I'm not Speaking ill of people that go to church, some people need it, some people— a lot of people use it for good. But when, when I was in church, it was very much like I wanted to do the girl stuff. I want like—

yeah.

And I didn't realize it at the time, but like the pastors and stuff were like, oh no, you do, you do the boy stuff.

And, um, yeah.

Um, and I was a laborer in my 20s and—

Wow.

Yeah. Um, And like, you see me now, I've got pink hair and a pink hair septum piercing and pronouns, as they love to say. And like, having to stick to those, that manual, yeah, mate, there you go, I'm bloody, yeah, nah, nah, like, no one might even exhale, mate. It's draining, like having to do like performative masculinity.

Yeah, I still struggle with it. I mean, you know, 25 years of trying to be a girl, I can't really fully undo that. So yeah. But then I figured out like, uh, like there's plenty of effeminate super queer men, and I very much pass as one. So, uh, that's been, um, that's been surprising and nice. I mean, when I was a kid, I was, uh, only interested in— in— oh, that's not true. But I was interested in all the boy stuff, and the girl stuff I just really harshly rejected. I was really mean. to our Barbies.

And I gave them haircuts and—

Uh, well, all but, because, um, I, I was a very good kid and I didn't want to mess up our toys. But, uh, uh, in terms of, um, play style, I was just constantly putting them through hell socially. Um, and my brother had all the boy toys and I just always wanted to play with those. And it's funny like the way your experience is, you know, affected by your siblings. I had an older sister and a younger brother, and, uh, my sister was very serious about gender, not very happy with me being rubbish at it. And, um, and I was always really resentful of my brother for, you know, like getting to, to do the boy stuff. And, and my dad's very— Well, he's not traditional, but he's very nostalgic for the traditional relationship he had with his dad. So he'd have like boys' outings with my brother, and then I'd be like, well, I should learn to go to that stuff too.

Aww.

So I think I pressured myself to be more butch than I actually was. And transitioning kind of actually allowed me to re-embrace those things that I kind of cut myself off from. became more feminine in a lot of ways. Just hairier.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the moment where it really clicked for me when I was like, oh, I'm trans, like I, all the pieces finally clicked was I think in 2020, 2020 during COVID COVID got a lot of us, I swear. A side effect of the COVID vaccine is—

Yeah, being stuck online and—

Yeah. Being alone, getting the COVID vaccine. Oh, I caught the trans. Because I was always a little bit— I was non-binary until like, yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna try it on. And, um, so I, you know, I, I'm, I'm not ashamed of my last name because it's— I went through a couple names before this one. I was Topher. Topher was my My, I'd say my plausible deniability phase.

Yeah.

Where like I was still a laborer, but I was kind of non-binary. Like I, at work I was, yeah mate, how you going? It's Tofa, how you going? But after that I'm like, hey, it's Tofa, how you going?

Yeah, it's like a safe way to dip your toe.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was kind of similar for me. Like I remember when I changed my name, I introduced myself when I went to my first like queer prom down in Melbourne and they were like, what's your name? And I was like, Oh no. So then like that night I went onto nonbinary.org and looked it up.

There's a website for that?

Uh, there was. Um, and they had a page, uh, that was just a list of non-binary names and I was like, bam, that one.

I'm so looking this up.

I—

yeah, I don't know if it's still up. You might have to find it on the Wayback Machine. And then, uh, my mum's name is Karen, so I stuck an A on the front when I did the legal name change as a sort of a consolation gift to her. So it's Aaron, but everyone calls me Wren.

Yeah. And funny thing about coming up with names. So when I was Tofa, like, I was introducing that name to my nieces and nephews and stuff, and my nephew couldn't say Tofa. So it was like, Sofie. And it was so cute. Couldn't say my name. And, but I was like, Sophie, hmm, I'm gonna hold on to that for about 3 years. Like, it's funny, like naming, like going, hey, you know, I'm not Topher anymore. I don't need that plausible deniability and going, hey, I'm Sophie now. It was actually so powerful.

Yes.

And like, I mean, to this day, I like, I mean, I've only been going by Sophie for about a year. year and a half-ish. But I still get a little bit caught off guard when, like, I sometimes go, hey, my name's Sophie.

Yeah, it's hard to change your name. I hated having to do it. But my girl name was just not feasible, unfortunately. Which sucked because my sister was given a boy name just in case. And I didn't get one.

Aw.

Like, what the heck, guys?

Just make up names, yeah.

So I had no choice. I had to pick a new name. And I, you know, it was sad to have to give up the name that my parents picked for me. And I was attached to it. Like, I'd been— I was definitely dysphoric about it from an early age. I was like, that doesn't seem like it should be my name. In the same way I'd look in the mirror and be like, that shouldn't be my face. I don't get it. But all of those years of making it my name and having to let go of that was sad. And yeah, like when you change your name, you have to consciously— I don't know, it's tough in the first couple of years, especially when people don't use it for you.

Yeah.

Keep deadnaming you. And it's like, this is already hard. Same with pronouns. Yeah, the early days of transition are— I mean, there's a reason they have informed consent when you medically transition, because psychologically it's work and it's challenging and you might not be passing. And yeah, it's fraught with complication.

Yeah.

But good stuff too.

Speaking of, I personally don't like the term passing, but like in this context, quote unquote passing, I've had to learn, like, for me, it's not about passing. It's about like dressing how I want to dress, not dressing what looks good.

Like, yeah.

And just being more and more me each day is—

I mean, that's quite good. Like, and that's something I still struggle with, like, because I still have like dysphoria. Um, I got top surgery and that absolutely changed my life, obviously. Um, but, uh, I still have a bit of body dysphoria and like, yeah, clothes are still tough sometimes. Um, it's from, from my experience, like, I mean, like, you know this, like, there's, there's a little bit of difference in the trans experience between like binary femme people and binary masc people and non-binary people. For me, like, people don't recognize that I'm not cis, and that's its own weird thing. And I could be stealth, but I can't shut up about— I can't shut up about trans. So I end up just closing to people very quickly. And then they're like, what? I didn't even know. I couldn't even tell. I'm like, thanks so much.

And like, I've found myself, yeah, just disclosing to people that, you know, I'm trans. Like, I mean, I'm still quite early on in transition. Like, I mean, it's been 4 years, but like, in the grand scheme of things, it's, yeah, it's still quite early. And Like, I think, I think we as trans people kind of build up that safety net of like, hey, you know, if this person finds out on their own, are they gonna freak out?

Yes. Yeah. Oh, I mean, yeah, like, that's always in the back of your mind.

Yeah.

And I think that's why I'm, I'm so, um, open about it, because I'm like, yeah, it's already uncomfortable when you first disclose and someone's like, wow. And then, you know, you get the whole thing and people are like, wow, you're really brave. And like, I think you're brave. You're so powerful. And I see a man and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, you're just a dude.

Like, yeah. And it's like, it's not bad. It's just, yeah, it's complicated. But it's nice. Like when people that I'm close with are like, I see you as male. It's like, that's, that is special. Yeah. Um, but yeah, like, oh, the worst thing when you disclose to people is they immediately want to know your deadname.

I hate that. Yeah. And as, as we were talking about with the trans language guide, it's none of your business. None of anyone's business what, like, it feels like.

Look, I mean, I, I tell people that I'm, I'm close with as a gesture of trust.

Yeah. I mean, if I hate that I have to, but like, if there might be some legal or government things coming up, I'll be like, hey, if this comes up, my government name is redacted.

Yes.

Yeah, speaking of names, that nonbinary.org, look what comes up.

Oh no, you're kidding.

Who did this?

Nonbinary.org. I was, I was excited to look it up, and all of a sudden—

That's a hate crime.

Yeah, I know, right? Tell you what, just look it up yourself. Like, if, if I have to, if I have to cringe, you have to cringe as well. Anyways, Peter Sterling, the only man in the world who's given birth to a child.

Someone might say, um, oh, you're a bit of a queer. And that'd be Brian.

Good morning and welcome back to Transmission on 4ZZZ. My name's Sophie and my pronouns are she/they.

My name's Wren and my pronouns are he/him.

And we're talking about, um, our own sort of like coming out journey, if you will. And, um, just to continue on, on my one, um, so I, I think it's important, one of the One of the hardest parts about coming out was like actually finding the supports.

Yes.

Especially like HRT and things like that. And I was lucky enough to have a partner that was going to Stonewall, had those supports, and they had an opening.

Nice.

And like, I'm not being paid by Stonewall or anything. But, you know, great doctor's office, Northside. And I believe they were one of the first ones to do informed consent. So you didn't need to do— you didn't need to go through psychologists and like—

I did.

Yeah. I mean, that's a valid pathway.

I mean, it wasn't. Do you want to hear?

Yeah, sure. That's what this show's about.

So it was 2017. And, um, I was lucky. I somehow managed to like start my hormones at the beginning of 2017 and get top surgery at the end of the year. Um, how on earth?

Yeah, that's fast.

But I— so on paper, I was supposed to go through 6 mandatory psychology sessions. Um, this was down in Victoria. Uh, I went to Northside Clinic. They were wonderful. I loved them. But informed consent, I don't think it was like allowed then. I think it was instituted in maybe 2018, and I think a place called Equinox opened up and they started with informed consent. It was very interesting because they were all not happy with having to go by this model. Um, and now I'm trying to remember, I can't— Jaco or was the one who wrote like the protocol for the psychology evaluation. And he, I don't know, I didn't have a great impression of his work because he was very pushy about being binary and passing and that being a requirement for getting hormones and stuff like that. I think you had to be socially living as your chosen gender.

Chosen gender.

gender, um, for a year before he'd get you started on hormones. He was really, really rough on transfemme people. And I didn't go to him, I went to somebody else, um, through Northside. And but she had to use like his— I just went like did a bunch of questionnaire type things. And yeesh. Um, it was a lot of like trying to tell if I'm neurodivergent, autistic, if I might have psychosis of any kind or personality disorders. But the very worst moment was— so she was sitting there and she was like, okay, I'm, I'm really sorry, I have to ask this one. Do you— I'll try to sort of make this a little more radio-friendly. She was like, do you get excited by wearing men's clothes? And I was like, like pants? Uh, no. Um, and that's the autogynephilia thing, but they just flipped it over for trans men and they're like, well, we have to check with them too. So yeah, it was a mess. She was wonderful. I think she cut it down to 2 sessions because she was like, Clearly, yeah, like—

You're trans enough for the trans club.

Yeah, my story is embarrassingly obvious. Like, when my mum came down to visit, I was living in— I would not— I don't know if I would have transitioned if I hadn't left Brisbane and lived in Melbourne. I didn't know the queer scene in Brisbane before I left, and I was deeply, deeply closeted. Yeah, um, my mum came down to visit to help me recover from top surgery. And, um, yeah, from, from that point she was like, oh my God, I get it. Um, and I changed so much so quickly, um, with HRT and everything. Like, I, I just became so much more of a person than I ever was before. Um, and she went through this period of grief over, um, Failing to recognize the obvious signs. But I mean, we recognized them. We just didn't know what to do. We didn't know that we could do anything about it.

Yeah. Like what I was saying before, like, yeah, you sort of, you see the signs, but you're like, oh, you almost discount it in a way.

Yes.

It's like, oh yeah, that's just a quirk.

Yes.

It's more than a quirk, Mom.

Yeah. She'd always say like, used to play like a boy. And actually, the most disturbing, like, moment of hindsight was me remembering that she had said, like, if— I don't know, in my early 20s, like, ah, you know, if you'd talked to me more, I might have gotten, you know, looked into getting you on, like, puberty blockers to delay puberty, because I went through a real early puberty. I was like diagnosed with PTSD for it when I was 11, and they were like, did something happen to you? And I was like, I don't know, it was puberty. So she would have delayed my puberty if I'd asked as a cis child, but I suspect that if I had been a trans kid, that would not have been on the cards. Like, not necessarily— maybe if I'd asked her, but I was not a kid who could communicate. But I think the medical community would have been like, oh yeah, we'll delay puberty for this kid that's going through it too early. But not if they're trans. That's what I think would have happened.

And yeah, and on that topic, like with the the transgender bans for youth. Sorry, not transgender bans. So transgender-affirming care.

Yes.

Bans for trans youth. It's very much the same sort of like, you know, cisgender kids are getting this gender-affirming care.

Yes.

And like, yeah, elongated muskrat. That's what I lovingly call Elon Musk. He, he gets gender-affirming care.

Yeah, well, I mean, I say lovingly, and now, like, most disrespectful term possible. Um, US Army's funding HRT for soldiers now.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Um, it's like, uh, what do they call it, like, rights for me and not for thee? Like, yeah, uh, it's, yeah, very frustrating.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, like, we have the, we have the research, we know what's good, like, what, what's proven to be be the best pathway.

Yeah, it's life-saving care.

Yeah.

Open Doors Youth Service is Queensland's leading LGBTQIA+ sister girl and brother boy youth organization, and we aim to create a safe and inclusive environment. We have drop-in spaces in the Valley for all queer and gender diverse young people aged 12 to 24. It happens every 2nd and 4th Monday of the month from 12 to 2 PM, so come along and join us for a free barbecue lunch games, chill spaces, showers, as well as a community closet. At Open Doors, our motto is Pride for Life. We look forward to seeing you there. 4ZZZ cares about our communities.

Good morning and welcome back to, um, Transmission on 4ZZZ. My name's Sophie and my pronouns are she/they.

My name's Wren and my pronouns are he/him.

And I'm Ruth.

And today we're talking about coming out stories and like when, you know, when we realized we were trans and pretty much what we did about it. And because, yeah, I mean, the whole what you do about it is a lot of people don't know. And I, I didn't know until— I, I'm— I consider myself very lucky that I was dating a trans person at the same time as coming out. Um, and, you know, I was pointed towards gender-affirming care through Stonewall. Um, shout out to Stonewall, great little spot. Um, and yeah, like, you don't have to do the HRT route. You, you don't even have to have dysphoria to be different, to be trans. If, as, as I say, as they say in The Simpsons, if it feels good, do it. Be like the boy. Well, in this case, be like the girl. Um, so Ruth, do you, do you have a coming out story for us?

It's long.

Um, but yes, I do. I think I realized I wanted to transition the first time I was like 8 years old, um, because I think I watched— does anyone remember that show Becca that had like Ted Danson playing a grumpy old doctor?

Oh yeah.

Um, there was an episode, because it was like 2000 and whatever, like there was always an episode someone would disappear and then come back as a woman. And it was always— yeah, I think I mentioned it before, and it was— it's always like a beautiful, highly successful woman. And I saw this character who was apparently like really sad and then went away and had a sex change. And I was like, oh my God, that sounds awesome. And so I went to church with my mum and told all the old ladies at tea that I was going to get a sex change like the second I could. And they were like, oh my God. Like they were appalled.

Dios mío.

Pretty much. But yeah, from there it was like I realized that there was something up, but I didn't really know what a trans person was. So I came out as gay when I was like 10. And then like gender fluid when I was like 14. But like in my mind I was gender fluid because I was as much as I could be. Like I couldn't access gender affirming care as a child because my mum would never. Um, she's come around now, but like— 2 minutes? She's come around now. But yeah, it's, it's a long story. Basically it took me like 7 years to get on HRT. Um, yeah, a lot of crap doctors.

Yeah.

Until I ended up with QCGP, who are also an incredible clinic.

I also went through QCGP at one point. They were really good. Um, I can't remember her name, but shout out to her. She was, she was great. She listened to every one of my needs.

And, um, yeah, um, you really cannot reliably go to a regular GP.

Yeah, God, no.

You think a doctor is someone you can trust who knows what to do, but, uh, there's a big difference between regular GPs and and a gender clinic.

Like, I was actively lied to and misled by a couple of doctors because they were just uncomfortable with it.

Yeah.

And I mean, I've had—

yeah, care— I've gone with my prescription with my reandron and they've said like, well, we're not comfortable with that. I'm like, I just need a nurse to stick me. I have— this is my medication. Like, yeah, yeah.

Um, let's, let's continue that after.

This week in community news and events for the 31st of August. In world news, Wales NHS gender surgeries paused for review into referral numbers. The Welsh Gender Service has paused all new and current referrals for gender-affirming surgeries in response to the governing body's concerns with referral data. 2025-26 figures indicate what Cardiff and Vale University Health Board describes as, quote, significantly higher rates of referral for gender-affirming surgeries compared with English gender services. Other parts of the service continue to operate, including hormone therapy support, psychological support, and speech and language therapy. Dolly Parton dies at 80. The one and only Dolly Parton has passed away. Throughout her prolific career as a musician, actress, businesswoman, and advocate, Dolly Parton won hearts and was a staunch ally of trans and gender-diverse people. Parton even faced intense backlash and threats from religious organisations and the KKK when Dollywood first began hosting gay days at her iconic theme park. Despite this, she refused to back down, simply stating, I love everybody. She was explicit in her support for the trans community, writing Travelin' Through for Transamerica, a film about a trans woman, and in 2023, she voiced her support for the trans community after a series of anti-trans measures came into Tennessee law. Parton died peacefully at age 30 and her loss is felt the world over. In national news: Queensland Education Department is to leave the Pride in Diversity program. Queensland's Department of Education is ending its membership of Pride in Diversity after a parliamentary petition opposing the LGBTQIA+ workplace inclusion program attracted just 914 signatures. The department has determined that continued participation does not align with its current requirements and has commenced the process to end its membership, a department spokesperson said. The petition cites a 2026 survey of 1,072 Australian parents, including 119 Queensland respondents, to claim that 78.4% of Queensland parents were uncomfortable with the relationship. However, no publicly available methodology or independent reporting for the survey could be found. Health organisation ACON, which runs the program, has previously disputed characterisations of Pride in Diversity as a lobbying or student education initiative. Pride and Diversity is not a public advocacy program, Pride Inclusion Programs Director Dawn Emsen-Hughes told the Star Observer in 2022. Its remit is strictly related to workplace diversity and inclusion practice. And for your events, Diverse Voices Volunteer Information Session. Interested in volunteering with Diverse Voices? We're getting ready to recruit our next cohort of volunteers and we'd love to meet you. Come along to our volunteer information session from for a relaxed, no-pressure opportunity to learn about Diverse Voices, the different ways you can get involved, and what volunteering looks like. Meet some of the team and its current volunteers and ask any questions you have, grab some snacks, and see if Diverse Voices might be the right fit for you. It's Saturday the 5th of September from 10 AM to 1 PM at 37 Balaclava Street, Woolloongabba. The ticket link is in the show notes and @diversevoicesqld on Instagram. Trans Theatre Symposium Google Meet artist callout! Calling trans theatre makers! You're invited to join an info session video call this Thursday ahead of the Trans Theatre Festival Symposium taking place as part of Melt Festival. The future of trans theatre. The Trans Theatre Symposium is creating a space for dialogue and support for Queensland trans artists and stories. It's a 3-day program of masterclasses, new play developments, showings, and panels. It's time for us to celebrate trans excellence, trans joy, trans storytelling, and Queensland's talented trans community. As part of the program, an open call is now inviting emerging writers and creatives to apply for targeted development sessions, including opportunities to connect, build skills, and help shape new work, with works in development showcased as part of the symposium. Join the creative leaders behind the Trans Theatre Symposium presented at Melt Festival for an informative session on the 27th of August at 5 PM. Meet Dino Dimitriadis, Leila Einwright, Sev Forst and Thea Ravenow to discuss the upcoming symposium, its program, and opportunities to get involved. All links to the events and stories for this week are in the show notes and podcast description. My name is Hazel, and that's all in this week's community news and events.

And welcome back to Transmission on 4ZZZ. My name's Sophie and my pronouns are she/they.

My name's Wren and my pronouns are he/him.

And I'm Ruth.

Yeah, um, yeah, funny thing about Don't Dream It, Be It and Rocky Horror in general. I mean, I know some of it hasn't— has aged pretty— like, it's mostly aged all right, but some of it's not aged the best.

I think it's more the creators that tend to age it.

Yeah, like, I mean, jerks or whatever. I always like to say Tim Curry shivered me genders at one point, like, and just That whole movie was like gender, bleh. Yeah.

I think it was a lot of people's first time like watching something that had this really audaciously gender non-conforming main— it wasn't a main character, but he was the main villain. And he was a likable villain and like objectively a transphobic and trans misogynistic caricature, but an incredibly dynamic one. And one that I think— yeah, exactly. And he was so just like, infectious. Like, you all wanted to be him.

Oozing confidence.

Confidence and transvestism.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I love— I kind of love that because, like, in, in the movie itself, he's so gender fucked that the people around him slowly become more and more gender fucked until that song where you get Dr. Everett Scott with the high heel. He's, like, supposed to be this bastion of heterosexuality. He's got a high heel out. And like, you and the audience are slowly becoming more and more fucked yourself. And like, it's, it's a very good piece of art that is also objectively awful.

Yeah.

And kind of a weird way to explore gender in a way. Like, I mean, yeah, but between that, Cloud from Final Fantasy wearing a dress, Gerudo Link from Breath of the Wild. Yeah. I think my genders have always been shivered, but that's just like, oh, I could, yeah, I like that. Like, I can roll with that. Yeah, we were talking about coming out stories before the break and how we got into like gender affirming care and like HRT, psychology, that sort of thing. I'm post-COVID. It's a lot easier to get gender-affirming care. Um, I, I find it's— there are waitlists though, because like so many people are like— I wouldn't say there's like an uptick in people being trans, but like people are a lot more comfortable in their skin. And as I, you know, COVID, like having time to think about your gender and who you are as a person really brought a lot of us out. And like, yeah, places like Stonewall or Gender Health Australia, or, um, I don't know any others.

If I've got a resource— Yeah, um, particularly for the youngins, Open Doors Youth Service.

Like, Open Doors is amazing.

So, so proud of the work that they do. Um, and also you should all go and buy my sticker that's raising money for them at Netherworld.

Oh yeah, the holographic one.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that looks so sick.

I think you were telling me before you already raised like $3,000 selling those.

It's somewhere between $2,500 and $3,000. I don't know. I don't know. Like, I think they're on their third run of stickers now.

Incredible.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to get one next time I'm around. Can we get them at Netherworld, or is there a website to get them?

Uh, you have to get them at the bar. Yeah, you just ask for the, the gay sticker.

Um, and how much are those, do you know? I think they're—

is it $10 or $20? $10, I think. Um, I mean, it's a really nice sticker, like, and it all goes to Open Doors Youth Service, which is the only, uh, partially funded, um, charity for trans youth in Queensland, I believe.

Because I know from my experience raising money for Project 491 that it— I think it takes 10 grand to, um, take a, take a kid from, um, I, I think it's like 5 years or something. It takes like 10 grand to take the kid through like gender-affirming care for that long.

Ouch.

Yeah, it's—

I'm finding that, uh, it's— there's more barriers. It's a little harder in Queensland compared to Melbourne and Sydney. It was a lot easier down there. And like, uh, there's a little more cost and like a few more barriers. And, and yeah, like I've said, I've been to GPs that have just been like, I'm not gonna give you your injection. Um, so It's frustrating. I hope it continues to get better here.

Yeah, and that's, that's the thing, like, it's, it's kind of a shame that, like, most doctors can't, like, at least get you on that path and, like, refer you to someone because it's like—

Well, like, it's, um, I believe it's OzPath that, uh, the GPs follow. Like, um, yeah, there's a lot of Yeah, a lot of doctors, uh, have no idea about any of this stuff and they're just like, I don't want to go to jail, I don't want to, I, I don't want to help you with that.

So yeah, like, like when I was in Sydney, um, I was doing a work trip in Sydney for like 2 weeks and I accidentally left my HRT at home. Um, I, I went to a GP, I'm like, hey, you know, I've already got this prescription, can you, you know, just update it? Can you I just need like 2 weeks worth of medication. And I had to go through blood tests and a whole bunch of stuff for medication I already had.

Mm-hmm.

And like, it was so frustrating because it like, I had the piece of paper, I had the diagnosis, I had the, this is, these are the medications Sophie needs. But it was still like a, why do you need it.

Oh my God.

Yeah, but yeah, um, there's definitely a lot— a few places around Brisbane. Um, yeah, anything you want to add, Ruth?

Yeah, it's definitely gotten better over the last 6 or so years. I know there's more gender-affirming doctors. I think it's only increased a little bit because Graham Nielsen is no longer practicing. Um, yeah, yeah, he— I hear he got good at it. He had to stop. But yeah, Graham Nielsen is no longer practicing and Holdsworth House is shut down, but there's going to be a new Stonewall Center in Fortitude Valley at some point.

No way.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the specific details are on that, but I've heard from—

What's his space?

Yeah, exactly. I think that all the doctors who were at Stonewall are still at— although I think Featherstone's also stopped.

Oh no.

Yeah, I don't know. It's so hard to figure it out. But also another gender clinic has opened in New Farm, and I forget the name of that one, but I've I've heard good things about it. If anyone who's listening is in the trans collective group on Facebook, you'll hear stuff about it.

Yeah, sorry, I just got a text. It is ten dollars for the sticker. Okay.

Or or if you know the the wordy words, my name is Sophie and my pronouns are.

My name is Ren and my pronouns are he/him.

And I'm Ruth.

And, uh, yeah, we're talking about our coming out journeys and like, um, you know, where to go from like once you've come out and like how to find gender-affirming care. And the other day I actually did a little bit of, a little bit of research on my Facebook. Um, I, I put some questions out to, um, some people and We're going to do a bit of a you can't ask that kind of segment. Yeah. So I'll be the cisgender heteronormative people and you can be the transgender people. Bit of role play going on in the studio today.

All right.

First question. Which toilet do you use?

I'll go first. I use the men's. I use the men's. I occasionally— okay, I have a rubric, so it really depends on like basically the phase of the moon, the season. But like if I'm at a gay bar, I'll use the women's. If I'm at a straight pub, I'll use the men's. If it's a single-use sort of like, you know, it says men's and women's but it's one stall, I'll use the women's.

Hmm.

Um, if a disabled toilet is free and it's not like a packed pub, I'll use the disabled. But usually by like 40% of the time the men's, 20% of the time the disabled, 40% of the time the women's.

And one thing I don't think people realize about toilets is like, if I'm dressed like, you know, if I'm boy-moding, I'll go to the men's toilets. And if I'm wearing a dress, I'll go to the women's toilets. As not like that's the toilet I want to go into. It's the one I feel more comfortable in. comfortable with. Like, if, if I'm wearing a dress and I go into the men's toilets, I feel like I'm a target in there sometimes, and vice versa. Like, with, with all this rhetoric of like, oh, they just want to look at our genitals, it's like, no, I just need to pee. Um, yeah. Oh, next question: are you a drag queen?

Not anymore.

I mean, I already answered that.

I don't get paid enough.

Oh yeah, you must work at The Beat.

I get more on Sano. I'm a doll queen. I'm not a drag queen.

What kind of effects did you get from hormones? I mean, I know with me, hormones I got, I got top growth. Oh, oh, Wren's really flexing right now. Oh, oh, you can crush cars with those things.

Oh yeah, I'm notoriously butch.

Boom, boom, firepower. Um, yeah, with, with hormones, it was actually really great. Like, my skin got so soft and my hair, my hair's getting longer and I'm getting all like Cinderella right now. Um, um, Yeah, and I, as someone that, like, my parents weren't neglectful or anything, but like emotions and stuff weren't really a thing growing up because they're like, oh, we don't, we don't really do emotions in this house. It wasn't like a don't feel anything, but I just wasn't taught emotions. And with HRT, I can feel things now. Funny story I always like to tell. Is, um, so Forza 4, Forza 4, um, the intro, there's like cars jumping over things, there's jet skis, there's this, there's that, and the other thing. And there's this awesome drum and bass soundtrack, which I love, one of my, one of my favorite soundtracks of gaming. And I'm getting really into it. I've got the controller in my hand and I'm like, oh, new computer, so graphics are— and I'm like, it's so beautiful. I'm bawling my eyes out to this car racing game and going, oh, I can feel things. I think that was one of the big moments of like, oh, there's a whole world of emotions out there. And like crying to episodes of Bluey, for instance. Like, I still can't watch the episode Space because it's so sad.

It's poor Mackenzie.

Oh, poor Mackenzie. Um, well, what about you both?

I can't cry now. I can't— well, I don't know if it's the testosterone or my antidepressants, but, um, I have to really work to squeeze out one tear. And when I get that tear out, I make sure I get that down my face and get those endorphins going. Um, I miss it, but I also don't because, uh, I used to cry like a lot, and I'd get dehydrated and I'd get migraines. And I don't know, it's, it's a shame. Like, it, it's a shame to not be able to, uh, express those emotions as physically as before. But, um, I also feel better in every way.

So I lost my curls and I got migraines, and that's about it.

Oh, good fun.

No, I, I stopped aging, so I'll take that.

Yeah, I mean, I—

I got curls. Yeah, I got bald. Oh yeah, it's double the risk if you've got 2 X chromosomes and baldness on both sides.

Oh no.

But it is what it is.

And yeah, I found my hair's gotten a lot more curly and stuff as well. Like, I quite like it. It's, it's definitely changed how I, how I do my hair and stuff. And yeah, changed me as a person, um, all for the better. Um, Was it expensive to start transition? Is it— well, or is it expensive to transition?

It could have been cheaper, but like, I was lucky enough to get on like QCGP when it was fully government-funded and bulk billed.

Yeah, same here.

It— yeah, it did take a hell of a long time. It took me like 8 months to get my first appointment, then 2 months from there, so 10 months from my first callback. So really 11 months because it was a month between calling and getting called back. So it took a long time, but it was free. Nowadays I see Fiona Bishop and it is not cheap.

I see her too. Yeah.

And you were just— you said we were saying before it was very expensive when you were commenced on HRT.

Yeah, I, I mean, I've just been wildly broke lately, so I've lapsed. I'm off Ugh. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I had to pay for all the psych sessions, and— but it was top surgery that really, um, broke the bank. I lost my whole super. Um, I barely managed to get my super out. I got accused of identity fraud because, uh, I had a preferred name on my government— I don't know, they were like— it actually took, uh, COVID for me to actually get my super to pay for top surgery.

Yeah, I mean, COVID, good, good for trans people, bad for everyone else.

Well, not great to lose your super, but, uh, yeah.

I mean, if I were in charge, it'd be absolutely free for everyone.

Yeah.

Um, vote 1 Sophie.

Sorry?

Vote 1 Sophie.

Yeah. Um, oh, here we go. How does sex work after, after you've transitioned? I mean, a lot of the time it doesn't for me because like testosterone and stuff is a very, very important— how do I, how do I do this like midday-friendly radio?

It changes things.

I know there's a little bit less— there we go. A little bit boing.

You need an extra soundboard.

Yeah, that'd be great. Just boing.

Little Looney Tunes soundboard.

I feel like Beavis and Butt-Head.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I mean, that was actually a lot of getting used to as someone who was hypersexual, um, when I was pre-transition, learning to have sex differently. Um, like I— and it's funny because it's changed my sexuality too, because I used to be a gay man. And deep in the amal mines, as we mentioned a few, few weeks ago. Um, and like, I was like, I would date other guys, and now I'm like, hey, I'm more into like feminine guys or females or trans women or like very sapphic or very, very not cissexual, like masculine.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know what the opposite of sapphic is, but, um, and I think it's uranian.

Uranian, technically, if we're getting sociological about it.

Oh, that's a new one.

Yeah, as in uranic, because like Uranus was, uh, the mythological like figure had a lot of male lovers.

Oh, oh, well, there you go. That's interesting. Yeah, always, always a history lesson when Ruth's on the case.

It's great.

Um, and yeah, like, I've found— I know I like to take things a lot slower, and like, I'm like, I want to be cuddled, and like, before we, you know, giggity. Um, uh, the not official medical terminology.

Um.

Yeah, no, for sure. Like, my sexuality changed as well. I, I, I mean, I was basically like asexual before. I just let relationships and that kind of thing just happen to me. And I was, yeah, on the surface, I just looked to be a cis-het woman dating men.

Woof.

Yeah. But yeah, no, it opened up. I mean, like, I identify as pan now, and like, the short answer is like makes you better at it, in my opinion.

Yeah.

It makes it more complicated and more diverse and, um, like more dynamic. Yeah.

There's so much more going on and most of it's good.

Yeah. It's like it doesn't have to be about, uh, starting something and then completing something.

It feels very less like—

More about journey.

Yeah, yeah.

Very, very much less like, um, task-oriented, like end-oriented. Yeah, like I was very— I can't tell whether I was just very repressed or whether I was genuinely— my libido was just very, very minimal. But like, yeah, after I went on HRT, it basically died for a year and then it came back new. It was like a phoenix.

Rising from the ashes.

Exactly. And so my libido had to die to be reborn female. But I've heard other people who've had a similar experience where like they'll immediately in the first 6 to 12 months get really low and then it'll come back.

Um, I've definitely had that.

Yeah, and it does feel very different. It's— it is hard to describe on like midday radio how exactly it feels different, but it, it feels like if you're, if you're living a more authentic way, it does just feel better. Um, I can have sex more often now because it doesn't make me feel gross and weird and strange inside. Um, and yeah, I took a back seat in the relationships I was in before I transitioned. I was I wouldn't have called myself asexual, but I would have, I would have been definitionally asexual. Like, I, I would not have wanted to really be touched or seen in that way. It was a very uncomfortable experience. Um, and I didn't even think of that as dysphoria at the time, but it objectively was.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

And actually, on, on that topic, like, um, bottom dysphoria, um, like, I know a lot of people get it, but I, I personally don't. And I That's valid. Like, yeah, you know, you can, you can like the quote-unquote bits you were born with. And like, going back to that whole autogynephilia thing, like, it used to be like a requisite.

Like, you had to need to have bottom surgery.

Yeah.

To transition, which is, um, really harsh.

Yeah.

Like, really invasive. So unnecessary unless somebody needs it.

They still do that in Singapore, I believe. Like, I was chatting to a friend in Singapore and like, yeah, it's— I mean, yeah, you— some, some people don't get dysphoric about, you know, they're, you know, they don't get bottom dysphoria. Some people don't get top dysphoria. Some people don't get dysphoria at all. And it's all about the feeling more, more comfortable in the other, in the, the gender that's who they are rather than like trying to get away from— I mean, like, don't know the words.

The proof is in the pudding.

Exactly. You are pudding.

Like, it's everybody who knew me before, like, just says, oh, like, you really make sense. Like, I can't believe how much you make sense now.

Um, so yeah, I've had a few people say like, you know, something was like pre-transition Sophie was like something was missing. Like something was just not, I don't know, almost correct. And like, like when I was, when I was a gay man, um, it was like, yeah, this is on the right path, but there's still something that wasn't really, you know, there was still something to it, you know?

Yeah.

Actually, this is an interesting topic because it can be quite nuanced depending on the person. Do you tell people that you're potentially interested in dating that you're trans?

Immediately.

I usually don't have to. I mean, as like when I come through a room, I usually come through the window, if you know what I mean. Like people don't really have to ask. They sort of read me in a way that kind of gives them a hint about my biology and that's all they have to know. If they want to know more, they can ask. But if I, if I was, you know, you know, Amanda Lepore, I probably would.

Mm, I don't know the reference.

Amanda Lepore is very like binary, sort of like the poster child of binary trans women.

Oh yes.

A very beautiful woman, um, but has had a lot of enhancements.

Ah yes.

Yeah, I'm like, uh, I, I don't really date very much, but especially if I'm like seeing like a cis gay man, like the anxiety is real. Like, I've had some awful experiences with— I remember there was one guy who, um, who, uh, I saw, and it turned out that he, he was sort of trying to find someone to, um, have a baby with, but he just couldn't, couldn't cop women. So I was his compromise, but he was not cool.

Cool.

rule with, with my body. So I was like, what are you— what are you— what are we doing here? Yeah, a lot of that kind of thing.

Yeah. And like, I mean, I'm gonna be honest and probably a bit self-deprecating about myself, but as someone that's like not quote-unquote passing, um, I don't really feel the need. Like, I'm often dating in trans spaces as a default Like, um, if, if, if anyone's seen my battle jacket, which, which was on the front cover of the Star Observer in February, which I'm super proud of— massive trans flags everywhere.

Congratulations.

Thank you, mate.

You're the star they're observing.

Um, but like, you know, I've got massive trans flags everywhere. I've got like zips and stuff. Like, I— if someone wants to date me, they probably already know I'm trans. Like, it's— yeah, like, it's kind of— it's kind of who I am in a way. Like, it's something I'm very proud of, very upfront about. But like, in, in a perfect world, you wouldn't need to say, hey, I'm trans, like, I'm AMAB, AFAB.

Yeah. Or it's like, oh, like, they find out later and they'd just be like, oh yeah, okay. Like, yeah, perfect world.

Yeah, it really shouldn't matter, but At the end of the day, general genital preference is kind of a thing.

Oh yes.

And like, and it's valid as long as you don't discount the person because of their genitalia. Like, and like, you know, if that actually leads into another question, you know, like, have you had the surgery? You don't really need to know unless, unless A, you're going to have sex with the person and they've given you that, like, you know, they've, they've let you into that sort of part of their world. Or, um, like, or I don't know, you're—

It's just morbid invasive curiosity.

Yeah.

And it's dehumanizing.

Yeah. Next, next time I'm on, I'm definitely playing Elephant in the Room by Axis of Awesome. It's great. Like, um, you know, like Which bathroom do you use? I use the bald man's bathroom. You know, it's really hilarious.

If I ever get the surgery, the $35,000 surgery, then I am personally going to tell everyone who asks. But that's just me.

Yeah, me too.

I'm going to intentionally go places.

Take a daily stand.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I'm going to go places where people are going to ask and I'm going to tell them, like, do you want to see it? You give me $5, I'll show you. I'll pay this off one fiver at a time.

I mean, I'm always lifting up my shirt like, look!

Yeah, I know.

Bespoke nips.

Yeah.

One of my roommates had top surgery last year, and it's like shirts don't exist to him anymore. And it's like, you know what, $10,000—

He paid money for this?

Yeah, $10,000. Like, you get a couple of years of that.

Every now and then I go shirtless and I'm like, oh my God, I forgot I can do this. It feels incredible.

Ah, and like, I want to get FFS. Like, it's expensive though, but you know, like, I mean, yeah, it's my face, but I'm gonna show it off. I'm gonna be like, hey, so this is me before, this is me after, check this out.

Huh.

Um, yeah, um, oh, that was, that was a really, um, yeah, wordy— oh, hang on, we just got a text. Has Dank said Gender Health Australia has just opened in Holland Park. Featherstone is there, I think.

That's right.

Oh, she's still practicing?

Yeah, Shelf Lovers is in the same building, and I don't hear people mention Dr. Naomi A Chong. A Chong?

Yeah, Naomi A Chong's moved.

Enough free HRT. She is an endo and bulk builds. Her clinic is in Cooper Road. Oh, so she hasn't moved?

Yeah, Naomi A Chong's—

sorry, I'm calling them tomorrow.

Naomi A Chong is awesome.

Yeah, and Ren, I believe Do you have, have some, some stuff to say?

I have some shameless self-plugging.

Shameless plugs, yeah.

Um, if you want to check out my art, uh, I'm on Instagram @ren.frost.art. And, uh, please come to Netherworld and buy my sticker because it's for a good cause.

Yeah, we'll definitely be, definitely be checking that out.

Um, and it's $10.

Yeah, ten bucks and it's a great sticker.

Just followed you.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, and I'll be following you after the show. Um, thank thank you so much, Ren and Ruth, for coming on in, and ah glad glad to have you all on. Ah, and I'll catch you all next week.

Thank you for having me.

Bye for now.

Thanks for listening to Transmission. Catch us every Monday live on four triple Z from ten a.m. or listen to our podcast. On the Community Radio Plus app.