At 4zzz, we acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we broadcast. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging of the Turbul and Jagera people. We acknowledge that their sovereignty over this land was never ceded and we stand.

In solidarity with them.

You're listening to transm on 4zzz amplifying the trans and gender non conforming voices of Brisbane and beyond.

Listening to transmission. I'm Brody. I am your host today and I'm a bit discombobulated and I am joined in the studio by the Incredible Bet.

Is that plugged in?

It's all good now.

There's a thing dangling off it.

It is a. Okay, it's a plug. I fixed it.

Okay.

I'm joined in the studio by the Incredible bet and we have a special guest within the studio today, someone that I have the pleasure of working with to something amazing. I have the pleasure of having Jade in the studio today to chat to us about international non binary day and other things I believe.

Hey, we should say our pronouns. My pronouns are she, they. What about you, Jade?

My pronouns are he, him and his.

Mine are they, them.

Awesome. So simple.

So easy to. It's so easy.

Yes.

So we're all a bit discombobulated today because Jade, you had trouble parking and there was bad traffic.

Yes.

I'm not a morning person like Brody.

And I got stuck on a train between two stations.

So Brody, you're gonna bow out for a sec while Jade and I talk. But I want to talk to you about non binary day two.

Can we do that? Yes, we definitely can.

So you two have been running it for seven years together and eight years overall. Jade, you started it eight years ago?

Yeah, something like that. Like a few of us have sort of come together eight years ago and decided we're. We needed to have an international non binary day celebration here in Meanjin or Magunjan.

Has it always been at the same location? It's such a big location for it.

Yeah. Well, we started off trying to create locations that we could develop non binary safety in. So we would choose like just a random location, provide some training to the service and like make sure that they knew how to work with non binary folk. And then we would have the celebration there. But then each year it got bigger and bigger and bigger and we just couldn't fit into the smaller locations anymore.

I just remember when I first got here, it was in the valley. I didn't make it that year. But that was a smaller location, was it then?

Yeah, yeah, that Was, yeah, definitely a smaller location. We had it there for two years, I think. And then I think the second year we. The kind school next to back dock allowed us to use this outside space for like a low sensory zone. So that was really good.

Oh, awesome. Is there a low sensory zone this time?

Yeah, yeah. At Yagera hall we have so many different spaces that we can use.

That's right. So there's some rooms inside where you have like cushions and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

That's where I'll be taking a nap, I'm sure.

Yeah.

As always every year.

Wouldn't you nap in the Blahaj pool or the BL High pool? I should say yes.

I have done before. But you know, I think there's always a point where it's so such an exciting day where everything is a lot and I'm just like, I just need to have a nap right now. There's no one around me.

That's why we have the room.

Exactly.

To help with the overstimulation of a space. So bustling full of people and stall holders and performers.

Yeah, yeah. I was really surprised how big it was last time. So you've got run us through the entertainment for the listeners. What have you got on the day?

Well, for the first time we're actually organising workshops and activities that are like listed. So we've got like a zine making workshop.

We've got a. Oh, that's Ray doing that, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Ray from Transmission.

Yeah. And I'll be doing a speed friending little activity because I find that at these events people come on their own sometimes they don't know anyone.

So speed friending, is that like speed dating?

I love it.

Yeah. So just a couple of little activities so that people can like connect with each other before the event gets too rocking and then they'll have people that they can chat to throughout the event.

Oh, that's great.

And we've got someone coming in to do some consent and safety sex ed for the non binary community.

That is Tara, who we had on the show last week actually.

Yeah, yeah. And then we've got our performers, which is why we've got the language warning because we've got the soft cunts playing, who I am extremely excited about. They played more recently at banshees in Ipswich.

4305. Sorry, just had to add that in there. It's my signature 4305.

You're like Snoop Dogg talking about LBC.

Yep.

Yeah, they were great. And they sold out their show so we're so happy to have them as our headliners for the 8pm Entertainment SL lot along with some really cool performers. Rosie, Raw dog, vice versa, Ms. Andress. Yeah. Alpine, Omni, Fembrolet. And that's just like the list we have so far. We also have open mic, so people that's going to show up and do something really cool, we've already got like Archie, Arsenic in the Weight Room being like, I want to do something classic.

All this is free, right? Am I right?

Yeah, yeah. So the, the main thing is that we want non binary people to know that this is home, they are welcome here and we don't their money to make the event happen. However, if they have any supportive binary friends, allies, anyone who wants to come along and enjoy it as well, and they would like to donate to make sure that it keeps happening, we really appreciate that.

Can I ask if it's not too invasive a question? How on earth do you put this together without charging any money? Do you get funding?

No, we just cry a lot.

We just cry and we just hope for the best each year. And depending on what we get donated to us the previous year, that'll allow us to put on the event the year after. Basically.

Yeah. And you know, the first couple of years we had like 200 bucks for the event and we would just find a venue that was happy to host us for free and do whatever we could with community, beg, borrow, steal.

How many people came the first couple years?

Gosh, so many it was ridiculous. Like we, we were packed into a tiny little bar slash, it ended up being a tattoo studio. So like it was very small, we had a lot of markets, it was much bigger than we expected. We were kind of aiming for house party vibes.

Yeah.

And it was more festival vibes. Yeah.

And then each year it seems to have gotten bigger and bigger and we've been able to put on something that's so incredible and allowed a community and stuff like that. So here's hoping that it'll go well this year and we can do it again next year.

Surely.

Well, I feel like the thing is we are just a small group, a very small group of disabled neurodivergent folk who are just trying to make a space and then everyone who attends is what creates the space. So if people have stuff to bring and to experience, that's what creates that dynamic. We're just making the space happen.

Remind us all when this is on.

The 6th of September. Normally it's in July as of the actual international non binary day, but we were able to push back our event to September.

Yeah, I was a bit confused about that. I feel like these events keep shuffling around on the clear calendar.

Yeah. It was just we didn't have being a small group of volunteers and having other things within our lives. We didn't have the capacity that in leading up to July to be able to do it. So September is what we've ended up with and I think it's going to be a great day.

Yeah. Excited.

Sure.

It is.

That's a Saturday, is it?

Yes, Saturday.

Okay. Awesome.

And there will be markets as well. So we've got lots of market sellers.

We have 41 market stall holders who have signed up.

It's crazy.

And there's still people who are just going to show up on the day and set something up. These are just the ones who needed like, like a specific information. And like gazebos.

Yeah.

Amazing.

It's like.

And they're selling like art. What else do they sell? I always notice the art and like the badges and stuff like that. I think there's clothes designers.

Yeah.

Come along.

Such a variety. It's just like everyone's non binary selling non binary wares. And like, you know, we've had like terrariums. We've had clothing terrariums. Yeah.

Yeah.

That was really cool. It just changes year after year. Some people, this is their very first time selling their stuff at a market. So it's a great like intro into how to do it and what to expect and they can just like pack up and go whenever they need to. So if they get overstimulated or need to take a break, that's totally fine.

Cool. And there's no age restrictions obviously.

No, not until the 8pm show. Then it's 18 plus because some of the performers are a little bit raunchier.

Right? Yeah.

So yeah, it is a family friendly event where one of my most wholesome moments from non binary day, I think it was last year, was these parents bought their young non binary kid and the kid was just so happy because they said to me, they were like, there's people, there's older people just like me here. And they were so happy. And at that same they came back for a little bit later and said to me, they're like, do you like my dress? This is the first time I've ever worn my dress. And I was like, oh darling, that is an incredible dress. They did look absolutely fabulous. So just like things like that is creating a family friendly community environment for not just the older non binary people, but the Younger. The younger ones as well. So I think that's one of the best things about it. I feel it's beautiful.

We've even had parents who have been supporting the non binary kids coming along and being like, oh, this is my community too.

Yeah, yeah.

And just coming to that realisation.

That is amazing. Okay, well, two local heroes in the studio.

Three actually. Bet.

Three. Thank you. I did want to just shout out kid as well, who is the whole reason that non binary day is a thing here in Magungen. Yeah, kid.

It was their idea.

It was their idea. They were like just so keen to see something happen after non binary folk were just sort of pushed to the side and trans femme folk in particular just ongoingly pushed to the side at different, like gendered events. And they were like, nah, we need to do something. And so, yeah, we're just doing this in their dream.

So good.

We are, we are.

How many genders are there?

I don't know. I just got here.

You're listening to Transmission with Bet, Brody and Jade and Bet is going to have a chat with Jade. Some further information about both Jade and non binary Jade.

Yeah, I'm Bet Pronouns. She, they, I'm with Jade. Pronouns, he, him. Yeah. So Jade, actually I was going to move off from non binary day and talk a little bit about how you came to be the fabulous Jade that we all know through the scene. I see you around so much. I see your fingers in all these pies and you have these fabulous queer parties and. But. And also I've heard that you ran for several years social groups in the Gold coast for young. Was it queer or trans kids? Both. Yeah. Right. Okay. So that was through the Wesley mission.

Yeah. So QSpace back in the day through Wesley Mission, Queensland.

How did you get into that? Is this something that you've kind of always done or like, like been so into supporting your community?

It's always been a dream, but I didn't realise it was a possibility. I studied to become a high school teacher, so I always wanted to be able to support queer kids in particular because I felt like that wasn't around when I was going through school and I was like, well, if my teachers had been more supportive, that would have been great for me. So maybe I can be that for other people. But then being a visible trans person in school seemed like a really scary thing to do and not super safe for me. So after getting the degree and trialling that out, trying to be stealth for a while, which didn't fit my vibe.

No, I can see why it wouldn't.

Yeah, I kind of just stumbled into a like part time role helping out with Q space.

And did you quit your teacher job? So did you actually end up working as a teacher?

No. So I finished my prax, got all of my papers and then put them in a box, put them under the bed and was like, yeah. And yeah, was like, well, how else can I work with young queer people? And I had this dream about like getting a big queer bus and like going to schools and being like a presenter at school so that I could talk about queerness and like hang out with queer kids that way. But that also seemed like a, a tricky route. Yeah. And then I found out about QSpace and that they were looking for someone to help out with the groups. So I went down there and it was like a youth psychosocial programme that was really great and had been going for 17 years when they finally lost funding entirely.

So they lost funding, like I think it was two or three years ago.

Yeah, two or three is time merges together. Yeah, they lost funding and then they like were able to like Wesley Mission Queensland were able to get a little bit more funding to try and like stretch the groups out a little bit longer. So we went for a further year under a different name and then, yeah, that funding was entirely wrapped up and the Gold coast was just like empty of youth support services for a while.

Yeah. So I noticed that one, I know one has started up recently.

Yeah, the Love in the Corner Corner. Yeah. So there's still like Transcendence, which is for Relationships Australia. Yeah. And they have the Gold coast branch which I also run because again, fingers in so many pies, as you said.

Oh, actually you run it. Oh, that's, that's right. You run the Transcendence Night. But that's not for young people.

No, that's one for young people. And yeah, the Lavender Corner, they've recently started up trying to fill that gap. Only downside is that it's all volunteer based, so the like, the burnout rate when it comes to these sort of volunteer based services is just so high. So it's so exciting to have it happening. But it's awful that it's not being funded. The incredible work and passion that goes into these programmes. They're running groups like every week they're running a, a community dinner, sometimes multiple times a month for like the general community as well. They are filling as many of the gaps as they can without any service support or funding. And it's just incredible. Yeah, yeah. And it's. Is A shame, because those sorts of services are so important and vital to the survival of young people.

Yeah, totally. So at what age did you come out?

Oh, gosh, I came out like so many different times. Yeah.

Vague question, I guess.

Yeah. My poor parents. I think, like I started questioning stuff around 13, but like I'm still like learning about myself every day and figuring out new parts the of. Of myself, which is delightful.

Yeah. You said something interesting. Seem to remember we were in training recently or. And we were going around saying our pronouns and you said your pronouns were he, him and I. Forget what the story was around. Can you, can you say again?

Sure.

Why. Why those pronouns?

Well, because I'm. I'm agender and I fit into the non binary community. I'm also trans. Like I kind of feel like the entire umbrella just covers what I hold. But yeah, no, I, I still use he, him pronouns because I had to fight so hard to have them used for me when I was coming out for the first time.

Right.

And they just feel the best. Like really my coming out journey was more of a definitely not girl, must be man because that's the only other option. And then learning to follow my joy from there and that sort of led to agender. Yeah.

Right. So you sort of. You went through a, A period of identifying as a man and then you realised, hang on, this isn't. This doesn't quite fit.

Yeah, yeah, it was just like figuring out like, well, what. What's the other option? What, like what other options are there? And you know, I came out back when the only forum options was Yahoo groups and FTM Australia online, which was awful.

Sounds very binary.

Oh, it was, yeah. No, but funny enough, I actually ended up going to open doors as well, a young person to their very first jelly beans group.

Their very first one.

Yeah.

Oh my God, how long ago was that again?

Time? So long. I feel like the.

You were like 15 or something.

Yeah, I was probably like 15, 16. It was in the like the 2000s, right before the 2010s.

And that was when Jade. Is that how you met my partner? And that's how I got involved within non binary day. Because Josie went to New Jade in a Younger, younger days. Yeah, I just had to add that in.

That's awesome. Thanks.

Yeah. And like going to uni, I became the queer director and so I've just been like involved in the queer community so much since I was able to find it.

Hang on, you just said you were the queer director.

Yeah.

What's a queer director?

It's like A student union thing where you run, like, the Queer Collective. But I had to sign a stat deck saying I am legally queer, which was so funny.

There should be a movie of that. Legally Queer. Oh, my God.

That was in the.

How proves that you're legally queer.

I just had to sign a stat deck saying I am queer. And then someone had to sign it being like, yes, yes, you are. That is true.

Okay.

Yeah.

Very affirming.

Yeah. I mean, I probably should still have a copy of that stat deck, but I should be brain. Yeah. Basically what happened was I went to uni, like found the community, ended up leading the Queer Collective for a few years, drove it into the ground because I'm terrible at organising undiagnosed adhd. People tell me, no, no, you, you were great. But I'm like, no, it was so much better before me. And then, yeah, I ended up with QSpay, started up their Q Plus programme, which was the 18 to 25 age group one. Then when we lost funding, I moved over to Headspace and started Tea Time. And then Tea Time got cancelled, so I moved back to Wesley. So it's just been like community space after community.

Yeah. And now you're at Open Doors.

Now I'm back at Open Doors, which is amazing. Like, full circle to work. Yeah, yeah.

Right. Okay. Many years later.

And I get to facilitate Jelly Bean sometimes, which is wild.

Yeah.

Because. Yeah, that helped me with my journey.

Totally. I'm sure it did. I see how it helps young people.

I just love queer youth spaces. Like, it's just so important to me.

Yeah. And you can see how their faces light up sometimes. We were having that talk earlier that. Where Brody mentioned that someone came to non binary day.

Young person.

And their faces, how their face lit up. And you see that at Open Doors sometimes too.

You do.

They can hardly believe that they're finally there. It's like the promised land.

Well, they want to be there. Like, you know, being in a school when I was doing that sort of prac, the kids didn't want to be there. And so you were finding, like lots of difficulties with engaging and connecting.

Yeah, yeah.

But you go to one of these groups and everybody is so happy to be there. They actually listen to you when you ask them to pack up.

The joys of it.

Yeah.

Open Doors Youth Service is a South East Queensland support service for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and or intersex youth aged 12 to 24 and their families. Open Doors believes that all young people have the right to explore, experience and express their gender and sexuality in safe and supportive environments and offers a range of programmes and counselling services as well as support services for parents of LGBTI youth and community education and training. For more information, visit their [email protected]. sponsors of 4zzz.

Jade, I think you, like me, are obviously, I mean, like all of us, you're deeply concerned, I'm sure, about the political situation for trans people, especially in Queensland right now, and probably especially for young trans people in Queensland. How do you think that the so called pause on gender affirming hormones has affected the young trans community?

Look real rough. One of the things that I've noticed is that there's a bit of a focus on the 491 people who are on the wait list and I just like to reflect that that's just people who had been supported enough to be able to get onto that wait list and that's a really huge number of young trans people who are supported enough to be able to be there. But that just means there's so many more trans people who would have benefited from that sort of gender affirming care who may not have the support to be able to get to that point, who are just out there hearing about these pauses, seeing the impacts and maybe not getting the support that they need from services and stuff because they don't know about them.

Yeah, yeah, that was my thought, first thought when the 491 branding kind of took off. I was like, yeah, well that's part of the story.

I mean it's a huge part and it's really significant but it just, there's just so much more as well. Yeah, that's the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah, yeah. So, and but you were saying earlier you think that the, the ban has kind of had effects outside of the young community too. What kind of effects are you seeing?

Yeah, well we are seeing the effects on the general trans community worldwide with how things are going generally. But then seeing it come to Queensland, not only is it having effects on the people that are primarily affected, which is young trans people, but the roll on effects, older trans folk who are then retraumatised by their own memories of having to fight through systems that meant that, you know, we had to wait for a year living in our affirm gender before we could get access to hormones, like that sort of thing. Like a lot of us have been through journeys that we thought our work would make better for the younger generation and it hasn't or we've made, you know, great steps forward to then have it. Paused. And I know for a lot of people, because it's only impacting public services. Trans folk who were accessing private services are now worried that every appointment they have with a private clinician is going to take away from a young person who needs those private appointments now because the public service doesn't exist for them. And so some of us are holding off on accessing our own, like, medical care so that those like wait lists aren't exactly expanding. Expanding. Expanding.

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess as you said, the climate, the political climate changing worldwide is quite worrying to think where this might go next. I mean, because obviously they, they target trans kids first in order to kind of open up the territory so that they can move on and target the rest of us. That's what we're seeing in the uk, for instance.

Yeah, it's, it's scary. Like the, the way that the world is at the moment for trans people and just for minority groups.

Yeah.

Active genocide happening, like there's, there's no place for pause and just scraping moments of joy is quite challenging. Some of the things that I like to remind folk who feel like they're not doing enough is that just existing in this world and staying alive is like the biggest thing that you can do. Yeah, it's the most powerful form of protest. And I, I've heard that voiced numerous times all over the Internet as well, that like, just surviving is the biggest thing that you can do.

Yeah. I think maybe we forget, you know, sometimes I'll berate myself for not doing more than I already do to help the situation, but then I'm like, well, like I'm actually trying to deal with my own stuff here as well.

Yeah.

I'm sure you know the feeling.

Well, our existence even just like going to the shops, going to the chemist, like it has impacts, it has flow on effects. I have parents who come up to me in like the underwear aisle at a Kmart and are like, thank you so much for like, existing. And I was like, that's such a weird thing to say to somebody, but I really appreciate it because, like, you're very visible.

I mean, your, I mean the listeners can't see you right now, but you are a riot of colour.

Thanks.

And every time I see you, you're a riot of colour. So you, are you, are you conscious that like when you're going out, you're like, I'm flying the flag here.

Yeah. It took a lot to be able to get to that point. Like it's. And you know, during 2020, I had this huge period of like not being able to leave the house at all.

Oh, really? I find that hard to imagine.

Yeah, no, it was really hard just because every time I went out I was harassed.

Where were you living?

Were you north side of Brisbane at the time? I found it much easier moving south side and in the Logan region everyone's much nicer. But yeah, every time I left the house I'd be harassed and it just meant that I didn't feel safe being on my own. So I ended up having to like link in with other trans people and then we would go on errands together because it. Safety in numbers. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

And that. So but when you did go out, did you still dress very colourfully and like you were like, I'm just going to be myself or did you dress down a bit?

Yeah, well, even when I like, even when I do dress down, it's still, I'm still super visible. There's not really like sometimes like, oh yeah, I can go back into like, dude mode and people are still like using random pronouns. Like I get the, you know, the she hers from really well meaning people assuming I'm a trans woman and the he, him.

Yeah, yeah, he told me about that.

Yeah. And you never know if somebody is he himing me because they see who I am on the inside or whether they're trying to be insulting. So it's. Yeah, it's risky.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so. So you thought, what the hell, I might as well be colourful with it if I'm going to be called out anyway.

Well, I just like, again, I'm following my joy and it's really important to me to do that and like I can't see any other option.

Well, I think it is quite revolutionary, I actually think, without wanting to be patronising, but I've often thought that transmasc people who present in a kind of a feminine way are kind of at the cutting edge of breaking up the gender binary at the moment very often. I mean, not all the time. There are non binary trans femme people as well who are kind of mixing it up more. But it's like the mixing up of different gender presentations I think is blowing people's minds and I think that's a good thing. Would you agree?

I mean, maybe, like it's. Yeah, it's mostly just about what makes me feel happy and comfortable in my body.

Okay, so it's not that political for you. I did want to ask you, what can we do? How can we reach? I know this is a big question, but how can we reach young people whose parents maybe aren't as supportive? Because it's something I think about a lot and I'm open to ideas.

Well, that's the hard part and that's where the visibility is really important. Because even if they don't have like the access to being able to go to services or reach out, the Internet is a minefield of like, danger, but also safety. So being able to see people out and about, living their lives, living their truths, that can keep them going long enough to be able to start questioning, to be able to do the right form of Googling, to find what they need to find.

But like, and you were saying it can be hard to get the message on social media or on Google. You'll list at different places. It gets suppressed or it just gets lost in the.

The issue with capitalism is that eventually, like, you stop losing the functionality of like, how you're meant to find things. Like the, the search functions become based on who's paying the most, not what's.

The best in shittification of the Internet.

Exactly, yes. And so it makes it quite hard. Like, you know, I can Google something and I get all the queer stuff immediately. And so I assume that's good for other people. But if you've not been searching for queer stuff for like the last decade or so, you're gonna get the church before you get the service. If they have similar names.

Yeah. And there is a church or something, a Christian group called Open Doors, isn't there, in Logan, I think.

Yeah. Back in the day they used to. To be the first one, and now what I'm Googling the second one. I'm like, is that because I Google queer stuff all the time? I don't know.

How are we doing for time there, Brody?

We are nearly out of time.

No.

Yeah.

Well, have you got any last words, Jade?

Oh, gosh.

For the troops.

Yeah, I mean the. Again, it's the staying alive.

Like, staying alive, staying alive. It's the most radical thing you can do. Really.

It's so important because, like, your existence distance impacts so many other people and it doesn't matter, like where folk are at in their journey. It's like when they're going through that journey, people are seeing that and that is like, that's keeping other people alive as well.

Yeah, totally. I remember seeing trans people early in my journey and, and being, you know, too scared to go up and say something to them, but very thankful that they were there, you know, for many years.

And in a world where it feels like people want you gone. Like the most radical thing you can do is not go. Yeah, that's it.

I agree.

So don't go.

Don't go. Be radical and stay.

But come to non binary day.

Yeah, exactly. Come to non binary day. We need you. That is the end of our show, friends. We are running out of time.

So bye.

Bye. Thank you so much, Jade, for coming in to chat about all of this. Just a reminder, International Nonbinary People's day is on the 6th of September at Yuggera Hall. And yeah, you've been listening to Transmission and we'll catch us all next week.

Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Transmission. See you next Tuesday, 9 to 10am on 4ZZZ.