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Transmission on 4ZZZ, amplifying the trans and gender diverse community of Meanjin, Brisbane, and beyond. You're listening to 4ZZZ, this is Transmission. My name is Elliot, uh, pronouns are he/him, and we have—

My name is Hazel, my pronouns are she/her.

Hey Hazel!

Hi Elliot, how are you doing?

Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, my first time actually running the panel, this is exciting.

I know, it's, it's been a little bit since you've, uh, been in the studio, uh, lately, which is nice, nice that you're That you're coming in more. I always like hearing your voice, so it's very, very good.

Yeah, thank you. Um, so, uh, I initially was like, oh, what are we— what are we going to talk about? What are we going to talk about? But prior to starting up today, we were having a bit of a chat and we were thinking, man, we really talk a lot about like gender-affirming healthcare specifically, um, and what that looks like for us and what that looks like for young people and I thought we haven't really talked about just generalized healthcare, like what healthcare looks like.

Yeah, how different that experience is when you're dealing with a trans body versus just a—

Yeah.

Straight down the road cisgender body.

Straight down the road cisgender body, yeah. And I mean, obviously, like, if you have intersex conditions or whatever, you're gonna have somewhat similar experiences.

Yeah, for sure.

Um, but yeah, I was thinking about, uh, I recently, um, recently went in and got an IUD and that experience was just so different and so interesting, you know, looking for any kind of, uh, birth control or healthcare in that way. Such a different experience. Like, have you had experiences similar, like, when it comes to—

Totally. I do have one that happened fairly recently to me where I went to an andro-urologist, which is someone who deals specifically with, um, you know, penis, like the typically male genitalia, right?

Yeah.

And obviously, that's already a pretty niche specialist, so there's not a lot of like explicitly queer clinic andro-urologists.

Totally.

And if you think about what the typical patient of an andro-urologist is, who's typically having issues with that part of the body.

Yeah.

It was, it was an interesting experience for me to be sitting in my dress and my makeup in this room that was otherwise full of somewhat sad-looking 50-year-old men. It was definitely— it was nice. It was— I had to sort of like take ownership of myself and feel confident, which I did.

That's good.

But you definitely do get a strange feeling when you're trying to operate within a system that clearly does not have the capacity to accommodate for you specifically.

Yeah.

In any sort of sense about the vibe or the atmosphere. And just having to occupy this space that's clearly like a cis men's space for the sake of getting healthcare that I need for my body, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I— exactly the same. There's so many things you actually have to really think about that otherwise you wouldn't, right? Like thinking about, is this going to be a safe place for me? Are they going to understand, you know, what's— what my body is like and what it does typically? Like, it's, it's something that you just Yeah. Don't— yeah, don't really normally have to think about. Like, I, I've been seeing my GP for about 8 years, uh, I've been medically transitioning for 5 years, and I was like, there is no way I'm going to this man for anything for my sexual health.

Interesting.

I, I just— he doesn't get it.

He doesn't get it. That's an interesting case though, because it's someone who's been with you before, during, and currently with your journey with medically transitioning and still does not feel like someone you think is safe with understanding your medical needs.

Man, he has to look up every single time whether, like, what, like, what levels need to be, uh, right, checked for my blood tests, right? I get a blood test every 3 months, and every 3 months it's the same blood test, and he's looking for the same levels. It's been 5 years. Bro has no idea. Bro has not— he— I see him hovering over which one to select every time.

Right, totally. So there's— outside of people who are specialists, there is often this kind of feeling that people aren't really prepared to gain new knowledge to understand what our bodies need.

Yeah.

Or that in some ways they seem incapable of adapting.

Yeah, I mean, like, he, he's not— the reason I've been seeing him for 8 years is because he's very easy to do what I want, you know? Like, I go, hey bud, I want this thing, can you please do it for me? And he's like, yeah, sure.

There's a lot of value in a GP that doesn't challenge your experiences, for sure. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

I like present— particularly when I first started seeing him, I was presenting as a cis woman. Somebody who doesn't argue against me and my pain—

oh, oh yeah, absolutely. That is hard to find. But you do feel now that you're presenting as a man, you're living with a You know, medically transitioned trans body, you're needing to find people who are more specifically interested in what your specific needs are.

Yeah, for sure. And that's something that like, I— it's, it's not that I don't trust him to do the right thing, it's just that I don't really know that he really gets it.

And that is my biggest thing with healthcare, generally speaking. is just not knowing and having to roll the dice.

Yeah.

With specialists in particular.

Yeah.

This is— I mean, this is where my first kind of tip comes. And you pointed out earlier, Elliott, this is not necessarily a universal tip, but when I need my general healthcare sorted, when I need a specialist, I try and just see the clinician who provides me my gender-affirming care. because I know that he has a big shortlist of specialists in everything who are definitely trans-friendly.

For sure.

So I know when I get a physio, they're not gonna be freaked out by the way my body is. I know that if I'm getting a skin check, they're not gonna be confused about what my arrangement is. Like, that kind of stuff is very valuable. And I had the fortune of being at a bulk build place when, you know, I developed this technique. But you were telling me earlier that's not something accessible to you.

No. Yeah, I mean, my— when I was getting gender-affirming care initially, it was through the Stonewall Clinic. Um, shout out to Graham, who is now retired. Um, and yeah, like, it was, it was great, but it was also expensive. You know, he's a gender specialist. It was, I think, I want to say like $150 out of pocket.

Oh wow. No, that is very expensive.

Yeah, because he was, he was listed as a specialist.

It's kind of like going to see a psychiatrist or something. Absolutely.

So you do get a little bit of a little bit back, but like really not enough to warrant going every 3 months or whatever, you know, to go get my shot.

Definitely. That's, that's a very different context for me because for me, whilst the place was also bulk billed, it's now shifted away from that. But additionally, um, it was a general practitioner who has the specialty in gender affirming care, but it's not— I'm not seeing them as a specialist, you know. So I guess My best advice there is to try and seek out professionals who have networks, who have people who, yeah, they can refer you to comfortably.

100%. And like, that's what I— that's what I ended up doing with my IUD situation. You know, I was like, I can't go to my GP for this. So I ended up going to the, uh, healthcare clinic at the QUT, um, campus in Kelvin Grove. Um, and because I was like, you know what, it's a university, they're seeing a lot of students, they're seeing you know, a lot of young people, the students themselves are people that are giving you the care. They've got obviously, you know, supervisors and stuff to make sure they don't mess you up with anything. But like, there's more of a chance that they're going to be chill.

Yeah, these are often younger, more flexible practitioners.

Yeah, exactly. And obviously you also get a little bit of a discounted rate seeing a student because they're still learning. And it worked out well. They were really good. They were super, super lovely with my care, you know. No question, they gave me the green whistle for the pain relief during the procedure.

Oh, that's beautiful.

That's great. They were like, yeah, no, you know, you're likely to have some level of atrophy, so it's really important that we're careful with you.

Oh, wow. That's very informed.

Yeah, and they were super, super informed and they were like, you know, really—

Oh, amazing. Sorry, we've just had a subscriber. Just real quick, thank you so much for subscribing. When we get your name, we'll say it.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Muchly appreciated.

Yeah, so it was like, yeah, they were super well informed, they were really careful about the whole situation, they were very clear about everything, they were really, really accommodating, and that was huge. I don't expect that level of care all the time.

Totally. Yeah, I think that's really valuable. It's nice to be able to find a way that you can find that experience that's not at expense, that's not going super far out of your way. Yeah. Because the unfortunate reality is, especially for my journey with my healthcare. Unfortunately, when you are a unique case for a lot of practitioners like we are, you have to go pretty far out of your way to find someone who's safe, to find someone who's experienced, or to justify and explain yourself to someone who doesn't understand. And then you're really entering territory where it starts to get dicey what level of quality care you're going to receive from this person.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Because I mean, even the best doctors, if they're not on their game, if they're thrown off somehow, honest mistakes can happen, let alone prejudiced ones. So it is worrying to have to operate under that sort of uncertainty.

Yeah, yeah, it can be a real concern. And, you know, it's something that we all have to be aware of, particularly like, you know, this isn't isolated to trans people. You know, you see a lot of this with women, you see a lot of this with people living with disability.

Also with Indigenous communities. With Indigenous communities, yeah.

Huge healthcare gap.

So in any way, if you stray from the norm, yeah, with what doctors are reasonably, sorry, not as in reasonably, as in typically trained with is what I mean to say, then yeah, you face this difficulty of having to advocate for yourself constantly, or seek out often expensive and inaccessible specialists.

Yeah, absolutely.

And at the end of the day, you know, we'll get more into it, but I feel the unfortunate reality is you gotta find a mixture of those things to make it work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100%. Well, on that note, um, I want to say, uh, we got a sub earlier and they didn't say who they were, but thank you all the same.

Yes.

Um, we did get a sub earlier in the show that I missed, uh, from Colin in Ashgrove. Thank you so much for that.

Thank you, Colin. It's always nice when we get subscribers coming in.

Yeah.

Uh, folks, if you aren't aware, 4ZZZ is a completely volunteer-based organization. We are a community radio and we are supported by you, the audience, primarily. And if you want to support us, if you want to support the radio, you can do so with a lovely little financial donation by subscribing. There's so many benefits to subscribing. You get a warm inner glow. You also get a number of goodies, a subscriber card that entitles you to discounts at a number of institutions including my beloved Banshees in Ipswich or Netherworld just down the street from our studio. And, uh, in doing so, you're helping us put on the radio. It's $91 per hour, and we're doing that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

It's constant.

Absolutely. And that's done on the support of all the volunteers and the subscribers. And mind you, all the volunteers themselves are subscribers. It's easily the best thing I spend my money on every year. Top it off It's tax deductible, folks. It's win-win-win-win.

Yeah.

So if you want to, you can head to 4zzz.org.au/support. You can see all the different price points you can subscribe at and also enter yourself into a draw for a monthly prize giveaway.

Yeah, it's a really cute time. It's so well worth doing.

Absolutely.

Yeah, 100%.

I look forward to every year when I renew my subscription. Yeah, that's not a joke. That sounds very—

No, no, me too. And it's, it's It's genuinely so fun. And like people say, oh, you have too many tote bags. I say I don't have enough tote bags.

Everyone needs more tote bags.

I need more tote bags. So that's why I get the Passionate sub when we have our Radiothon, because get a cutie little tote bag, nice new shirt. Absolutely. Yeah.

And you know what? I'll be honest on the other side of things. I just do a full subscription every time.

Which is so fair.

I don't have that much money.

That's completely fair. I, yeah, I budget for it, which sounds You know, a little bit silly, but it's for me worth it. Plus, like you said, uh, it's tax deductible.

So.

Yeah, and look, if you don't feel like supporting, maybe your pet does. You can for $25 subscribe your pet. My 21-year-old cat Mia has been a staunch supporter of 4ZZZ.

21?

21. I know, so you know she knows music, and she's been a staunch supporter for a few years now. Um, so if you want to get like Mia, you can go ahead and subscribe to 4ZZZ.

100%. Um, so now that we've talked about that, uh, I want to talk about the news because I forgot to play it when we first started off the show. So I'm going to play that. Um, we're going to hear some news and events for this week, uh, and then we'll jump right back into it.

Good morning. My name is Rae, and this is your news and events for the week of the 24th of August, 2026. In national news, in South Australia, self-described conservative think tank Women's Forum Australia has been stoking fears after an internal review of South Australia Health revealed that 22 children were given gender-affirming treatment without first seeing a psychiatrist. Though details are vague, as the review has not been released due to patient confidentiality concerns, it appears reference is to puberty blockers, which are routinely prescribed for cisgender children without any mental health evaluation. In response, a statement from SA Health said the children received their initial mental health assessment from the senior mental health clinician instead of a psychiatrist, but that the treatment was always appropriate. Women's and Children's Health Network Chief Executive Rebecca Graham said in each case psychiatrists later endorsed the diagnosis. As in the case of the 2025 investigation into the Cairns Sexual Health Service, the subtext seems clear. Some clinicians are bending the rules to allow trans children to obtain care. Whether this represents a danger, as Women's Forum Australia allege, or a form of clinician activism in response to overly restrictive and unfair policies around trans healthcare is open to dispute. The Labor government has passed an NDIS amendment bill that will remove 241,000 disabled people off the NDIS. This is a tough time for the disability community and for fellow disabled trans people. Reach out to community during this time. You can listen to Only Human on 4ZZZ Sundays 12 to 1 PM and follow @protectourndis and @protectourndismaganjin on Instagram. Congratulations to all the winners and nominees of the 12th Victorian Pride Awards. including a fellow radio host over at 3CR, Sally Goldner, for winning the award for Outstanding Contribution to Media. For over 20 years, Sally Goldner has hosted Out of the Pan, a community radio show on 3CR that explores the boundaries of sex or gender, including transgender, bisexual, and polyamorous issues. In her acceptance speech, Sally said, Stay difficult and stay happy. Stay proudly queer. And that's the bottom line, because Sal Goldner said so. In events, as part of Melt Festival, the Trans Theatre Symposium is running a 3-day program of masterclasses, new play developments, showings, and panels. As part of the program, an open call is now inviting emerging writers and creators to apply for targeted development sessions in October. You can also participate in a collaborative multimedia project celebrating queer expression and community through Melt and Collab called Fashioning Queer Identities. Open to all experience levels, this free project includes 7 creative workshops, 1 photoshoot, and a pop-up exhibition to showcase your work. For more information on both these events, head to melt.org.au. Trans Joy Meanjin has their first book club this Sunday the 30th of August from 2 PM at Gender Health Australia. If you'd like to join them to chat about Meredith Rosso's book Birthday, book your place by visiting @transjoymeandrin on Instagram to find out more info. My name is Rae, I use they/them pronouns, and that's all for this week in news and events.

Thanks, Rae.

Jinx. Uh, thank you, Rae, that was awesome. Um, yeah, so we are today talking about medicine, medical Yeah.

The general healthcare experience for trans people.

Yes. Rather than gender-specific healthcare, but just going to the doctor.

Absolutely.

And what that can be like living as a trans person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like something interesting to get into is that I kind of have, and a lot of people relate to this in general with transition, but I've got like 2 identities that exist within the healthcare system. I have, you know, my chosen name Hazel and my correct pronouns and everything in some medical contexts.

Yeah.

But in others I don't. It's my dead name and he/him. And so what happens is I have my specialist who is very good, but sometimes hard to get in to see at quick notice. And that is who I go to for anything particularly sensitive, for anything where I worry about the specific, you know, experience of a specialist, where I fear they would be prejudiced or misunderstand my needs by not understanding my body.

Yeah.

But then if I just need results quickly, I just go to a local GP who I know is available. I go with all of my current legal information, and I just, I just put up with it, you know? And it's not a great way to go about things, but it is currently the way that I've had to do it to make it work.

Hmm.

For example, I recently dislocated my knee in a way that was bad enough that I am on workers' cover for it. And in doing so, I had to, you know, just get a specialist, get a GP as quickly as I could in order to ensure I was supported whilst unable to work because of my injury.

Hmm.

And so I didn't really have the the luxury of waiting the month or so it would take for me to book in with my specialist, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's, yeah, such a, such a huge pain. Like, I, I have a different experience because I did every level of transition— social, medical, legal, whatever— within the same week, essentially.

I mean, good.

I, I was like, pushed it off for 26 years and then went, all right, Everything all at once. Thank you. Um, yeah. And so all of my— I also have the privilege of being born in Canberra, so, uh, you can change your gender marker on your birth certificate down there. Um, which means that pretty much everything has been changed everywhere else as well.

Yeah, great.

Um, the only stipulation of that being, for as the— as an example, when I went to go get the IUD, they placed my sex As female because it's an IUD. It makes sense. It's sex-specific.

It's relevant to the specific healthcare.

It's relevant to the procedure, to the specific healthcare. Yeah.

Totally.

But when I'm doing something otherwise, you know, physio, you know, some other random things.

Everything's all aligned.

Everything's all aligned with how I present, how I look to the world.

Yeah. So, but that does come as a double-edged sword, doesn't it?

100%. Because then I also have the worries and concerns that there's going to be questions asked, like, or something that's like, oh, Oh, what if they ask me about, I don't know, something that's more generically, you know, cis-het or cis male specific?

I don't know.

Something typical in men's health that wouldn't be relevant to you.

Yeah.

Or additionally, the idea that you've got potential misunderstandings about what your body needs. Yeah, for sure. You know, obviously if you're a trans man, you may have risks of issues to do with Um, you know, periods and, you know, that, that kind of experience can be hard to get across to doctors who have a very firm idea of what you are.

Absolutely. And like, you know, there's, there's always the question of, well, what medication do you, do you take? And then like, I list off my medication and I always forget the T. I always forget the testosterone. I'm like, that's not a medication that I take because it's just not on my mind.

It's just what your body does.

It's not, it's not something that I'm like, that's medication.

Yeah.

I'm just like, that's the thing that I need to do to be me. That's— yeah.

Totally.

I don't see it as a medical intervention, despite the fact that it absolutely is.

But also, gosh, just the awkwardness of explaining that you have HRT to a healthcare professional that doesn't understand it.

Absolutely.

'Cause within their purview, they're invested in making sure they understand what every med you're taking does.

Yeah.

But if they don't understand HRT, it's a very awkward and kind of stilted conversation explaining what and why.

Yeah, and then I, you know, Unless they see my top surgery scars for, you know, I've had like ECGs and stuff where they've seen that, a lot of them just assume that I'm just a low testosterone cis man and I'm getting HRT as a result of having—

Oh, interesting.

Naturally low testosterone because I, you know, I, I have the, you know, extreme privilege of passing quite well. Um, you know, it— I, I have these assumptions given to me. Um, and even, even Opposite to that, if people see the top surgery scars but don't know I'm on hormones, a lot of them think that I have gynecomastia or had gynecomastia or what, you know. There's so many different layers to it.

It's very interesting.

It's super, super interesting. Um, and it's like, you know, do I disclose? Do I not? Like, what?

And also it adds to all this air of uncertainty about how a healthcare professional is going to approach you.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, there's also just the reality that when you transition Your body is not a cis person's body. We are not stupid. We all know this, right? And that means there are comorbidities associated with your gender assigned at birth that you may still need considered.

Yeah.

That a doctor may not at all consider when, when talking to you.

Absolutely.

You know, especially in women's health, there's a lot of conditions that are specifically often targeting women. writ large, that if you've transitioned, you know, AFAB to masculine presenting, Yep. You then have to deal with the fact that those comorbidities can still exist depending on what they are.

Yeah.

But you might have a doctor completely overlook them or refuse to investigate them.

Yeah.

Which again is its own whole challenge.

Yeah, 100%. You know, I, I was diagnosed with PMOS, um, when I was a teenager, and I have not looked at that since transitioning.

Interesting.

I don't— nobody's checked that out, seen what it's up to.

Is that something that you feel concerned about?

Not really.

Okay.

I'm sure it's fine. I'm sure it's fine.

I mean, I've been there. I've had, I've had health stuff I absolutely should have gotten checked. I mean, to potentially tell a very personal story here, it was honestly one of my wake-ups to the fact that I might be trans. You know, I was identifying that I had these feelings. I didn't really want to handle it, didn't want to think about it. And then there was a mysterious lump in my genitals.

Hmm.

And I didn't get it checked out for a while, and finally I saw a doctor, and of course they go panic mode about that, because of course it can be cancer. And getting that all checked out, and whilst that was all happening, I was doing this sort of the mental math and thinking about it, and I was like, okay, there's a very real chance depending on how this goes that I might have to have something removed. And I thought about that because I understand that's typically considered a very intense thing to go through. And I went, well, I don't mind. And then when I was thinking about that, I was like, well, that's not a normal response of a cis dude. Yeah, that's— I should, I should analyze this a little more.

Yeah, for sure. No, I definitely, I definitely had a very similar experience, like somewhat similar, I guess. Do you remember when Delta Goodrem, going back a little while, Delta Goodrem was diagnosed with breast cancer?

Not specifically.

No, I think you're probably a bit younger than I am.

Go on, mate.

She was diagnosed with breast cancer at like 21 or 22. She was really young. And I remember being a kid and I was pre-puberty, but I still kind of had this You kind of fantasized about it? What if I could get that? Then I wouldn't have to have boobs.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

Which is a wild thought for an 8-year-old to have, you know?

Yeah, it was barely even an issue in your life at that point.

Yeah.

And you know what, like, literally, yeah, that's exactly a similar feeling to what I had there, where like a little part of you vicariously through that concept in a kind of almost toxic way is like, God, wouldn't that be nice if I had a traditional medical excuse for this need that I have and can't put a name on?

Yeah, which is— yeah, I feel I had this weird, like, I felt awful about wanting that because like there's so many people go through this thing and it's awful.

And it's terrible.

Yeah, it's a really horrific, horrific disease. And here I was like, oh, I wish.

Yeah, and it's, it's got everything to do with the fact that you hadn't processed yet Who you were and what your needs were. And your mind just got given this opportunity to imagine a reality that suits you.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that is, that is so interesting. It's nice to hear that that's kind of a shared experience. I do wonder if anyone else has experienced a similar thing.

I have seen, you know, online, not that we should take everything online, you know, as reality, but I have seen that that's been a common thread.

I will also, on that, I think it's important we understand— I mentioned before the ways in which our bodies will still carry some medically important traits from transitioning that may be dysphoric to consider and to think about. But additionally, we need to be hyper-aware of the ways in which our bodies do align with our preferred gender.

Absolutely.

And like, you know, for example, it's taken me a long time to be sensitive to the fact that I can get breast cancer and that I need to inspect that I need to be aware of that.

Yeah.

Because it's never been something that I've needed to worry about. It's never something I've thought about. No. But now, I mean, I have breasts. I can develop breast cancer.

100%.

It's important that you're actively checking for that. And it's taken me time to recognize that a lot of important women's health information is stuff that I need to be consuming as well and considering for myself.

And the interesting thing with breast cancer specifically is that men can also develop breast cancer. Like, it's a thing that actually exists. Everyone has breast tissue of some— to some degree.

Of course. So it's an underappreciated side of that as well.

Yeah. And, and, uh, you should also be aware, as if you're a trans masc person that has had top surgery, you can also still get breast cancer even without— even having lost breast tissue through surgery. So it's important to be aware of these things and to, to Make sure you're looking after yourself and being aware of what your body's up to.

For sure. And like, you know, I want to say this sensitively because of course a gender transition for some people is very medical, for some people it's not. And there's a number of different ways in which we all go through it. Our bodies respond differently to it. And on top of all of that, you can feel very dysphoric about unfortunate realities about your health.

Yeah.

So I definitely am not— I don't mean to stomp over that when I talk about this, but you have to be aware of the, I think, quite beautiful mix of things our bodies are.

Absolutely.

We are— we're not cisgender people. I think we are powerful and beautiful for that. I, and I love that I'm not cisgender, but that does mean that my healthcare is a complicated mixture of needs that I need to be very sensitive to, and I need to keep my mind on. And I think, um, it's really interesting having this chat about it, and I think in future it would be really good to collate some resources together about this because the more we talk about it, the more I'm realizing just how much more knowledge I need about this too.

Yeah, for sure. I think it's, uh, it's something that we could definitely, uh, you know, definitely really, you know, gain something from in, in finding out more about what we all need and what, what resources are out there for us. Like what GPs are safe, what specialists are safe, what low-cost options there might be if you can't go see a gender specialist that costs, you know, $300.

Totally.

And even just like strange idiosyncrasies about your health you wouldn't have thought about otherwise. Like exactly what you said about you can still develop breast cancer after you've had top surgery.

Yeah.

Which, you know, it does make sense, but it's not something I'd ever thought about before.

No, the only reason I ever found out about that was through a trans masc Facebook group, because unfortunately young man did lose his life because he didn't find out until—

That's tragic. Yeah.

Um, you know, it's, yeah, hectic. Our bodies are wild, wild things. You know, they can do so many things.

And you know, there again, that's the value of community. That's why programs like this are important and valuable. That's why it's important and valuable to talk to your specialist, talk to the other people in your life who have these shared experiences and learn from each other.

Absolutely. Community is vital.

Yeah. Yeah. So, we're happy to learn from you. Share your thoughts if you'd like. But otherwise, I'm very much enjoying this chat. I feel like I'm learning a lot about it, about myself and you as well.

Yeah, it's a great time. I'm really loving it.

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Welcome back, you're listening to Transmission on 4ZZZ. My name is Elliot, I go by he/him pronouns.

My name's Hazel, I go by she/her pronouns. Um, for those who aren't aware, on Transmission we just play trans musicians.

Yeah, transgender diverse.

Every minute of music you've heard on Transmission, barring some hyper-specific exceptions, is just all trans.

Yeah.

So like, there, there is just that much. You would think like 2 hours of radio every week playing mostly new trans music that you'd get a little thin on supplies, but we don't. There's just so much.

And you know what's crazy as well? Most of these tracks Have been Australian or local.

Yeah, absolutely.

Like, I think in my list, I think there's 2 or 3 overseas tracks. So it's like we're not even thinking about worldwide.

Yeah, this is just local Australian local tracks. I, I— that is one of my favorite things about being on Transmission is the amount of exposure I've had to just the genuinely really vibrant and good queer trans music scene in Australia writ large, but also especially in Brisbane. There is a lot.

There's so much great music in Brisbane. It's awesome. And like the artists that we have are super cool.

Yeah, absolutely.

Super cool folks. Like, yeah, I love it.

We get to talk to them, isn't that nice?

We do.

It's a real treat.

It's a real treat. Yeah.

But you know what's not a real treat? Healthcare.

What a great little segue. I love that.

Thank you. A good transition, if you will.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Healthcare. We've been talking about healthcare. in our show today. Um, not gender-specific healthcare, but healthcare as gendered people.

Yeah, in the context of being gender diverse.

Yeah.

What is normal healthcare experiences?

Yeah, yeah. Um, I kind of want to slip a little bit away from that, but still somewhat related. I had this experience, uh, getting an ECG for I don't know if you'll, you'll know what it is, but it's just to measure your heart rate.

An echocardiogram.

Echocardiogram for you, for your fancy folks. Um, uh, to measure my heart rate. And so obviously I had to have my shirt off for that. And as mentioned before, I've had top surgery, so I do have some scarring. And I also experience, um, what's the word when you get thick scars?

Um, oh Lord, I feel like I know the word too.

I can't remember. They're thick. They're pink. That's obvious. They're obvious scarring. Um, which I like, you know, personally, I am thankful for that because I—

You enjoy it as a reminder of what you've done, where you've come.

And as an indicator of my transness as well, as somebody who does look quite cis, it helps to make others feel safe if I'm shirtless for whatever reason.

Right.

Um, you know, just whatever context you might be shirtless in.

I don't know.

Um, uh, anyway, uh, so I was at this— I was at my classic, my current gender clinic— um, not gender clinic, GP clinic. Um, and the nurse was a new nurse that I hadn't met before, and she was performing the ECG, and she was also giving me my shot at the same time because I have to get that every 11, 12 weeks. And she looks at my chest and you can see she's taken aback. She does a visible like, like, whoa. Like, without the noise, but you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to give you the image.

Yeah, she gives you a little shocked double take.

Little shocked double take. And, um, she immediately clocks that I'm trans as a result. Um, and she goes, oh, uh, you know, she asked me some questions about it. You know, she's, she's asking, you know, uh, if it was painful, if I'm bothered by the scarring, if, um, you know, if I'm gonna do anything about it. She goes, are you gonna do anything about it? Like, And I was like, no, I'm fine with the scars. They don't really bother me. And she's like, oh, well, what about like when you're going out? What about when you're like at the beach or whatever? And I was like, oh, well, you know, I'm not, I'm not much of a beachgoer anyway. You know, it doesn't really bother me. I don't go, I don't go out there topless in public super often. And she, and she, her immediate response was, oh, well then what's the point?

That's, that is crazy.

And I sort of looked at her and I was like, well, it, you know, it makes, it makes me comfortable. Like I feel better in my body.

Yeah, absolutely.

Like, what I had there before was extremely uncomfortable and extremely unpleasant for my, my living day to day.

Yeah, it was a source of dysphoria.

Yeah.

Um, and then she proceeded to talk to me about her trans friend who, um, you know, she was saying, oh yeah, no, he has this experience and he has that experience, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And over the course of the ECG and everything, I find out that the person that, uh, she's talking about is actually a trans woman. She's actively misgendering this, this woman to me the whole time.

That is supposedly a friend.

Supposedly a friend.

She wants to talk about. Yeah, real quick though, subscriber!

Thank you, Jan Kennedy. Jan from Kennedy. Sorry, Jan from Kennedy.

Kennedy Jan.

Kennedy Jan. Thank you so much, Jan, for your subscription.

We really appreciate it.

That's really sweet.

Thank you. That sounds so uncomfortable.

Super uncomfortable. I, and I sort of sat there and I was like, this is uncomfortable, but I'm like, is it inappropriate? Like I'd been so, I don't know, like my experience in the healthcare system and the questions I get on a day-to-day basis, I go, I get so used to it. And then it wasn't until I talked to some other people about it that I was like, oh, that does suck. Actually, that was really inappropriate and kind of sucky.

Yeah.

And I went back to my GP for my next appointment and I was like, hey, just so you know. this is the experience that I had.

She's not like a—

That was really uncomfortable.

She's not someone you'd consider safe.

Yeah.

Or comfortable around.

Yeah. Next time I come back, like, can we make sure that I'm not seeing her for, you know, my shot or for whatever else? Because I just don't feel great with her.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Also, just, this is a very common thing with people who don't have the trans experience or particularly familiar or sensitive to the trans experience. And it's extra disappointing to see it in someone who works in healthcare with queer people. But just this, this total misunderstanding why we do what we do.

Yeah.

This idea that you should be upset about the scars and feel ashamed about that, or if you aren't showing off your chest, why would you get top surgery? Just this weird warped view that we are doing this for other people, that like what matters to us Explicitly, it's just what other people think when they look at us.

Exactly, yeah. And like, if that was the case, I would never have transitioned at all. Because I— my biggest fear going into transitioning was that I wouldn't pass, and that I— that it—

I—

and, and not so much for other people, but for myself, that I wouldn't feel—

That barrier would have been insurmountable if that was your only purpose for transitioning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like, if that would— if it would— if it was that I really needed to be viewed socially as a man and that's it, and that was the only reason I would ever transition, I wouldn't have done it. The fear would have been too much.

Yeah, I think you're totally right about that, because people are forgetting the reason it's called gender-affirming care, the reason we do it through the healthcare system, is because it is treating dysphoria. It's to help with— and I should clarify, this is for medical transitions I'm talking about here— You do not need to have dysphoria to be trans and to transition. But when it comes to the popular understanding of why trans people do anything, it is— it is upsetting how many people feel that we are doing it with exclusivity to just appear different for the sake of social reasons.

Yeah.

And often it's so much more internal, you know, whether or not you medically transition, whether or not you have dysphoria, It's for internal purposes that you do it.

Yeah, we're not doing it for anybody else or for any other reason external to ourselves.

Yeah, and when it comes to wanting to be socially accepted, wanting to pass and all of these things, that is true. A lot of us have those desires, but it comes out of a reflection of that internal need.

And honestly, I think a lot of it is societal too. Like a lot of our desire to pass and a desire to—

I mean, it's safety.

Be integrated, it's a safety thing. It's a, it's a It's a natural experience of like wanting to be welcomed and included and feel safe. And that can be said for everything, right? That can be said for any kind of experience. Like the reason that we present in any kind of way to fit into any community is to fit into a community and to feel accepted and feel welcomed and safe.

And, you know, for me with my transition, I, I try to pass and I want to pass. I do not feel that it is the hallowed journey of all trans people to try and pass, and I certainly don't think it's a necessary part of transitioning. But for me, the goal has never been to be female.

Yeah.

I didn't transition to be a woman, I transitioned to be Hazel. And for me, my personal identity is kind of complicated. There's more to it than just wanting to go by she/her pronouns, the reason I want to pass and I want people to say she/her is because I want people to get the message about what I want them to respect about me.

Yeah.

It's, it's more nuanced than just looking at the mirror one day and being like, nah, that's just gonna be a woman, and I, and I just want people to look at me and say that's a woman and stuff like that. It's, it's internalized, and wanting people to treat me that way is just a reflection of those internal needs needing that type of affirmation to fight off dysphoria. That's my personal journey.

Yeah, yeah. And, and like you said, every journey is different, everybody's experiences are different for why they want to go through this process. But nobody, in my understanding, nobody's out here being like, yeah, I'm doing this for anybody else.

For sure. So it, it makes those comments that you received really quite gross, that, that she has this total misunderstanding of why you would be doing any of it. And the fact that as a healthcare professional she would feel comfortable feeling the need to challenge anything about the way you're going about your own healthcare like that.

100%.

It's really quite gross, and unfortunately not surprising or unheard of.

No. And, you know, I'm okay with questions. I welcome questions within a respectful sense. Like my GP, like I said, I don't really trust him for trans stuff generally because he doesn't really get it. He doesn't really know anything. But I welcome his questions about it. Because he genuinely wants to learn and understand from me, from my experience.

Totally. There's merit to be gained from that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But being out here challenging is different from questioning, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have, you know, when you reflect on that, do you have any sort of thoughts about how to handle a situation like that?

I think in the moment, like, I, I'm not a very confrontational person. I really struggle with that. in the moment. Like, it takes me a little bit to process things. Like, everyone has their own ways of handling these things, and I don't think any of them are wrong. Um, but, you know, I sort of, like I said, kind of went away from it being a little bit confused and a little bit like, what? And throughout the conversation, I was just kind of being like, uh-huh, oh yeah, okay, cool.

And, you know, sort of like a little bit dissociated from it.

A little bit. And, and, you know, when she asked me direct questions, you know, I was like, oh, you know, I guess, you know, I don't really go to the beach. And I, I I don't think I had it in me to sort of really challenge her assumptions, because I just didn't really know the rhetoric of how to handle that.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, I think after the fact, because of who I am as a person, you know, listening to my— the way I described it to people and hearing their thoughts, I was like, oh yeah, maybe I should say something and do something about this.

It's hard to, in the moment, Try and be an advocate all the time.

Yeah.

Especially when you are personally in that situation.

100%. I find it a lot easier to be an advocate for others.

Yeah.

Like if I was in the room with a friend of mine who was trans and—

That happened to you?

I would be like, I'd be like on it, you know? I'd be like, um, actually, uh, this is what the deal is.

Sure.

Um, I, yeah, I think what I want to say about that is that It's important to remind ourselves that as much as we try and be advocates and try and be the best representatives for our community and for each other, sometimes you just have to be safe, you know?

Yeah.

Like, sometimes you can't be on the spot like that. Sometimes it's not a person you feel like you can safely challenge. Not to say that's exactly your situation there, but it's— you don't— I don't want people to feel like you have to be the freedom fighter all the time.

Yeah.

If you're in a medical situation, and someone's made you uncomfortable, and for you the safe journey out of that is to try and just let it blow past and not start a fight with someone who's putting a needle in you, then sometimes that is what you have to do. Unfortunately, the thing that we have to prioritize the most right now as a community is being safe.

Yeah, 100%.

And I'm glad you had those friends that helped reframe it and helped you get clarity with that as well.

Yeah, and you know, I did go in after the fact and I did talk to my GP about it and To be honest with you, I haven't seen that nurse since then. So I don't know, maybe they moved her to a different clinic, or maybe it was like an ongoing pattern of behavior or something. I don't know. But, you know—

There's pathways you can take when you're being made uncomfortable.

Yeah, there are pathways you can take that are less confrontational and can feel a little bit safer and a little bit better, right?

And at the end of the day, it is on our healthcare providers to make sure that we are comfortably and safely receiving our healthcare.

Absolutely.

If you make a reasonable complaint about that, it is on them to respect that and to understand why. Yeah. Yeah, and, and if, if they don't, if they wholesale reject the fact that you've had a transphobic experience in a medical setting, that's malpractice.

Yeah.

It's really just— I just, I know I'm stating the obvious, but just with my own experiences and some of my friends as well, sometimes you just gotta really lay it clear, you're allowed to exist as you are comfortably and safely. If people are disrespecting you in a workplace setting, in a medical setting and stuff like that, if your family still uses your old pronouns when you go around, That is, you know, aggression. That is, that is going against your right to feel safe and secure in these environments, and you should feel comfortable in wanting that space for yourself. So yeah, yeah, you— if you have someone who's spoken to you that way in a medical setting, in a workplace, at a restaurant, you are totally in your space to make a complaint about that and stand up for yourself.

Absolutely. Yeah, and maybe nothing comes from it. But maybe it does. Maybe you're the one thing that tips it over the edge to making change. Or maybe it's just a learning experience for the person involved.

Yeah, unfortunately sometimes a lot of people just aren't aware they've done that. And you know, the final thing I say, and this is not to be catastrophizing or anything like that, but if you find yourself in a position where the traditional avenues of making complaints hasn't worked, you don't feel safe, you're having trouble, there are very trans-friendly people who can assist you with that. The LGBTI Legal Service.

Absolutely.

They provide free— you can request through their website free legal advice.

Yeah.

If you need a lawyer through them, you can contact them for that. They've got resources about what discrimination looks like. Really, I just— and maybe vicariously through looking at myself in the past, like, I really want trans people to feel like they can stand for themselves and feel like they deserve the same amount of comfort and respect that a cisgender person would receive in a workplace or at a healthcare clinic.

Yeah.

Or just out and about, you know.

For sure. Absolutely. And like, you know, if, if you're not feeling up to that, if you're not feeling up to, you know, doing these advocacy things or, you know, whatever.

Or if you live stealth and you don't feel like you can really—

If you live stealth and you don't really want to deal with it. You can also, like, if it's something like a healthcare space or whatever, you can leave.

Totally.

You can just not go back. There are other options, you know. I did that with a psych when I first came out as trans. Funnily enough, my psychologist was the only person that had a problem with my transition. I'd been seeing her for like 3 years or something.

Wow.

And she had a big issue with it. There was obviously some weird sort of countertransference issues happening. She, I think, put herself in a position of like a mentor position. In her mind.

And so when you, you weren't going down a pathway she thought made sense—

Yeah, yeah. She had major issues and she said some stuff that was very inappropriate. And I stopped seeing her.

Yeah.

I just stopped seeing her. I said, you're not a safe person for queer people.

And that's—

yeah. And I stopped seeing her.

And that's like, it really is as simple as that. You know, and I, I don't know why it took me so long to try and learn this as well, but just like, if someone's not safe, they're not safe.

Yeah.

There's— you have no obligation to try and stick around with and engage with people who don't make you feel safe or support you.

Absolutely.

And people who are safe and support you are out there.

Totally. Yeah, like, it is incredible, incredible, the levels of community that exist, particularly if you're living in the Brisbane region, like, or, you know, any sort of city.

Yeah, city, they'll have their own equivalents.

It's absolutely incredible. Like I said, I've been transitioning medically for 5 years, and when I first started transitioning, I can 100% tell you that I had 3 friends.

And full certainty, just 3?

Yeah, 3. Totally. And, and like, no, not really anybody that I could be like, oh yeah, you know, we're kind of friends. Like, I had 3 friends.

Yeah.

Uh, and then maybe some acquaintances through work and whatever. Uh, but post-transition, I have friends everywhere because I'm engaging in community. I'm chatting with people all the time. I'm so much more comfortable and happy with myself. And if you don't feel safe and supported with the people that you have in your life, You can go out there and make more friends.

For sure.

And make community.

I mean, if I can talk like personally about it as well, you know, when I, I was outed to my father and that led to me having a pretty rough conversation with him where he told me in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be allowed around my nephews, that I would lose all my friends, that I would lose my employment, that my life was gonna fall apart.

Oh my gosh.

And it was a hard conversation. It was a scary one too. And while as far as family goes, things aren't in a great place, my life has gotten so much bigger since transitioning. Everything has opened up.

Yeah.

I— the past 4 or 5 years of doing music in the local area, making friends, studying my passions, studying overseas for triple Z, all of this stuff, has only happened not just after I transitioned, but like because I transitioned.

Yeah.

Like the, the really tight group of very supportive friends and the general collection of friends all over the place, similar to what you're saying, it's because I'm trans, because I've been living as Hazel and living comfortably as myself, that I've gotten all this extra love and support behind me. And the reality is, if I decided That I couldn't handle it, and this is a fair decision some people have to make, but if I decided that my, my dad was right and that I needed to, for the sake of other people who aren't safe people to me, box myself in and sit tight, I wouldn't be living a life as full as the one I'm living right now.

Yeah, absolutely not.

So like, if people aren't safe, get out of there. Yeah, it's my simple fact. Life has just gotten better since.

Absolutely.

I stand by that very firmly.

Yeah. And I think it really comes down to, like you said, living comfortably within yourself and, and, and, you know, people love you because you love yourself a lot more and you can accept yourself.

For sure.

Yeah.

It's reciprocal.

Yeah. It's a beautiful time.

How many genders are there?

I don't know.

I just got here.

Welcome back. This is Transmission. You're listening to 4 Triple Zed. My name is Elliot. I go by he/him pronouns.

Yep, my name's Hazel and I go by she/her pronouns. Do you ever get a little nervous that you're just gonna say the wrong pronouns?

Sometimes, yeah. I, uh, yeah, I remember listening to my partner, um, on, uh, Workers Power and they accidentally said that they have he/him pronouns because everyone else had he/him pronouns and they were just like following the tribe.

I, I have on air nearly said my friend's name was my name.

Yeah, I have to sit there and mentally make sure that I'm like doing the right thing. Yeah, yeah, uh, it's, it's a lot of fun.

So don't worry, cis allies, it's hard for us too.

Yeah, it's hard to gender myself correctly sometimes.

Um, we love 4ZZZ.

We love 4ZZZ. We just, we just, you know. And you know what, if you love 4ZZZ, you know what you can do? You can show us some love.

You can.

You can subscribe.

You absolutely can, and you should.

You should. All you gotta do, 4zzz.org.au/support. There's a bunch of options.

Yeah, and the rest is basically done for you.

Yeah.

It's that easy.

I did it while I was at a show.

Oh, and speaking of, someone just subscribed. That's what we're talking about.

Thank you. It sometimes takes us a little bit for you to have a name pop up.

Yeah, if you've put your name in, we'll say it when we see it. But yeah, no, I— that's exactly it. You've subscribed at a gig, you were saying?

No, while I was at a show here. Doing this.

Oh, live.

Chatting. I was chatting with Liz on Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em on Sunday a couple of weeks ago.

Amazing, that's so good.

It's so easy.

And look, I've subscribed in a fugue state before. You don't even have to be awake. I'll just wake up in the morning and I'm like, why do I feel so good right now? It's 'cause I subscribed to 4 Triple Z. That's what happened. It's good for your health.

It is, it's good for your mental health.

It's a great time. Speaking of, we've been talking healthcare today. We have been talking healthcare. We've had a little journey through some unfortunate personal experiences with healthcare, the sort of strangeness of navigating healthcare as a trans person when talking about non-gender-affirming care.

Yeah.

Interfacing with the sort of traditional medicinal world.

Yeah, absolutely.

With people who may not understand you or your body. And we also talked plenty about, you know, like what you can do when you're in an uncomfortable situation. The fact that you don't owe anyone. Thanks, Ducky. I just got a very nice text in from Ducky saying, Hazel, you are the best. You're the best, Ducky. And also, sorry, this— I don't mean to ramble all over the place, but since Ducky has been so nice, I just want to also say hi to Maya's cat who's listening to us right now. A friend of mine, she puts the radio on for her cat when she leaves, and so the cat has been very kindly listening to us.

I love that.

So just letting you guys know, Fan of cats. Yeah, cats listen to us. That means, you know, we're cool.

We are cool. It's not often that you have a cat that loves you and, you know, expresses that love. And the fact that they listen in every week, that's real sweet. It is, it is real sweet.

But yes, so we talked about healthcare, about, you know, finding safety as a trans person, and also the fact that if you're around unsafe people, there are tons and tons of safe, caring people who are here for you. When you go through that journey, when you, when you live the life that you are meant to live as yourself.

100%.

Um, but yeah, that, that comes with difficulties in the medical system, and sometimes you need to navigate that specifically.

I do want to also say that it's not always the case either, right? Like, I, uh, I have last year gone through a pretty wild medical experience of being diagnosed with epilepsy.

Wow.

We—

so weird, out of nowhere. Um, that's what happens when you hit your 30s, kids.

Um, you get epilepsy.

You get epilepsy. Um, and I went to 3 different hospitals because I was in different areas each time I had a seizure, and they were all phenomenal. They were all so great.

They all got it. They all understood.

They were all chill. My transness had nothing to do with it. My— like, nobody brought up that I was you know, on testosterone or anything. Obviously hormone levels can, can sometimes impact the brain in that way, but they're like, you've been transitioning, you've been medically transitioned for 5 years, there's nothing there.

They didn't immediately accuse the unique novelty about you as the source of your illness.

Absolutely not. They were chill as.

That's really cool.

This is— I went to Stanthorpe Hospital.

I, I mean, I don't feel like I understand that. Reference. What do you mean by Stanthorpe?

Stanthorpe is like out, out west.

Oh, we're talking so like real regional.

I went Stanthorpe and then I went to Warwick.

Okay.

Hospitals.

Yeah.

And they were chill as heck.

Yeah, that's amazing.

They were awesome. So like this experience of having difficulty in healthcare is not always going to be the case.

For sure.

It's not always a thing. We just want to also, you know, show an understanding that it can be.

Yeah. It's something to be prepared for.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a really nice note to get towards, especially as we're sort of hurtling towards the end of the episode here. You're right, like in much the same way that when it comes to safe people and coming out and life in general, that there are many wonderful people and spaces for you.

Yeah.

The same is true in healthcare. You know, you can encounter people who aren't safe, who make you uncomfortable, who don't understand you, but just the same, there is tons of very empathetic, caring, kind people who will know how to help you and support you.

Yeah, absolutely. And like, just a little anecdote from my own studies in university, healthcare students were the ones that advocated themselves to learn about gender and gender differences and transition. They are the reason that they now get taught that in university.

Right. It's, it's from the ground up.

It's from the ground up. The people that are learning that and the people that are new into the industry and like getting out there They're the ones that push for that. They care.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

And I also feel that in the, in the medical world, the people who care about trans healthcare, who care about being aware and sensitive to trans clients, those are the people who— it's like self-selecting for good doctors.

Yeah.

Because those are people who know that they must constantly keep up to date. Those are the people that are searching for new information. Those are the people who have the empathy to support people. They may not have any lived experience that they can compare to that person's experience. And that, I think, you know, when you can find someone like that, you know, you're going to receive good care from them.

Absolutely. Without question. Yeah, it's— there are hard times in the world, but there is also such beauty.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's a really nice sort of place to leave it. Yeah, I think that's, you know, we've kind of rounded out healthcare can be hard. It can, it can kind of suck, but it's also wonderful.

For sure. And you know, if, if you need support, there's people to reach out to in the show notes, on the podcast uploads as well. We have links to mental health services, to care services. And also, you know, frankly, this is a safe space for trans people as well. You can reach out to Transmission or 4ZZZ. These are places that support People like you, we're here for you. And yeah, thanks for listening to us. Thanks for taking in the information and thank you for texting in and recommending songs. It's been a very lovely episode today.

It's been a great time. Thank you so much. This has been Transmission. I'm Elliot, pronouns he/him.

Yeah, I'm Hazel, pronouns she/her. Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening to Transmission. Catch us every Monday live on 4ZZZ from 10 AM or listen to our podcast on the Community Radio Plus app.